Barbara: Hi everyone- welcome to 40 Minutes of Faith. My name is Barbara Cox and I host this weekly podcast to explore God's word and our relationship with God. Today's guest is Sundae Schneider-Bean and our topic is ex-pat faith, which we're going to explain in just a minute. I met Sundae when I lived in Germany, but we've never met in person, and that's okay.
Sundae is American and has lived in many places around the world, including Switzerland, West Africa, and is currently in South Africa. Sundae was raised in a Lutheran community. As she began to travel internationally and study intercultural communication, her views on religion started to lean toward being cultural relativist, meaning that we are all trying to make sense of the same, big questions from multiple perspectives.
She doesn't have a fixed way to talk about her faith. Now she might describe herself as an agnostic with spiritual leanings. Sundae is a solution-oriented coach and intercultural strategists for individuals and organizations and hosts a podcast called Ex-pat Happy Hour, among other business ventures. Welcome, Sundae. How are things for you in South Africa today?
Sundae: thank you so much for that warm welcome. I'm just at the end of my afternoon and we've had a gorgeous day today, so I absolutely can't complain.
Barbara: When I was introducing you. I used several words that we can clarify for listeners who might not be ex-pats or accompanying spouses or agnostics. Can you share with us your definition of those terms?
Sundae: the most simple definition of ex-pat is someone living outside of their passport country for a rotational job, a short-term thing like with the military where you're there for a few years and you moved to another destination, or it could be for long-term.
Accompanying partner is an individual who goes on assignment abroad where their partner has the lead assignment, whether it is through the foreign service or a corporation or missionary community. And the partner goes along to keep the relationship together or to support the family. I've been all of those. I moved abroad to be with my partner. We've also been in multiple countries. And even though I have my own company, we're still in the specific country because of my partner’s lead assignment.
So agnostic- I was raised in a Lutheran family. My mom taught Sunday school for 17 years. I taught Sunday school during high school. I was confirmed in the Lutheran church. And had a very monocultural experience growing up, born and raised in my hometown in North Dakota.
So it wasn't until I started to travel and go to Buddhist countries or Muslim countries and all these places and expand professionally with my intercultural lens, that I even came across the word agnostic. So I would put it in the positive sense of curious and hungry to learn.
It could be said as questioning or seeking evidence. But for me, it's really a relationship with this higher power - I could call it spirituality where it's like, Hmm, so there's this higher power out there, and this is pretty amazing. And that's too amazing to put in words but let me try to have a relationship with that with him or her, or however you want to call it.
Barbara: Thank you. So you picked today's Bible passage and we can talk about it for a moment before we delve into everything else.
Sundae: I wanted to pick the passage “this too, shall pass” because my mother always used that in our home. It's from Two Corinthians four.
Barbara: So if you have a physical Bible with you, Corinthians is in the new Testament towards the end of the Bible after the gospels. And I'm going to read chapter four verses 17 to 18 from second Corinthians, the new international version. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.
So we fix our eyes, not on what is seen, but on what is unseen since what is seen is temporary. But what is unseen is eternal. Sunday. How does this verse speak to your soul? Why did you remember this one in particular?
Sundae: I think there's two levels. One is very personal and one is more on the professional side. When you're going through a hard time, if you're going through a crisis or you just want to escape your troubles and what I've learned over the years, there's been plenty of times as a strategist, I'm like, what's the strategy to get out of this?
But what I've learned as I've aged is sometimes the answer is actually sitting in our troubles and trusting the learning, trusting there's a bigger purpose for that suffering or that struggle and trusting that you're not alone in that struggle. So I think that comes from wisdom.
You gain through hardship or through age. But it really also connects with me on a professional level because part of my work is sitting with people as they struggle or sitting with people where they want to transform their lives in some way. And they can't yet see it. And they have to have faith that where they are now isn't where they will be in the future. And sitting in that space of trust. I'm curious from you, from a more religious perspective, what do you see?
Barbara: I've spent a lot of time with the Bible, but I don't consider myself to be the final expert on anything. I think inquisitiveness is great - I'm right with you. As we mature, our perspectives have changed. When I look back on something from years ago, I might look at it differently now than I did at the time. But what I think of as temporary is five minutes. And if you're having like a dental procedure, five minutes is an eternity, but generally in the scope of things, five minutes is not too bad.
I could probably survive this. But to God, or to a higher power, temporary might mean something completely different. So like you said, when we're struggling and trying to see the future. I really appreciate that you said kind of trusting that there's a process with this and God's temporary might not feel like our temporary, it might be years, but then to know that I don't think we were promised a life of ease.
There may be other groups out there or people or philosophies or something that do kind of wish for, of course I wish for ease for myself too, but even people whose life looks easy, I don't know if it really is easy.
Sundae: Oh, totally.
Barbara: the grass is greener.
Sundae: Right. I was just reading a book called life quakes and it talks about life and transition. And in the research that they found was that often people have that for three to five years. So if, you know that's normal and you know, it might be three to five years till you find resolution, it helps you prepare differently.
Barbara: Exactly and sometimes I find myself wallowing in self-pity and then I kind of need to give myself a pep talk. But at what point is it okay to just be present with the suffering that I perceive as suffering, knowing that my suffering isn't as bad as a lot of other people's suffering. And to be grateful for what I have while at the same time, I'm acknowledging, this really hurts. And I can just let myself cry and if I just let that emotion go through me, it will ebb and flow.
Sundae: I don't know if it was the way I was raised. I was raised really in a very safe environment, full of love, not a lot of drama, very protected. Right. So I feel like maybe it sets the tone of security. So when you get out in the world on your own and that security isn't there anymore, you're cutting them unprepared for that.
And I think my first real heart struggle, besides teenage heartbreak stuff was in college and then moving abroad and real loneliness. When I moved from North Dakota to Minneapolis, I literally knew no one. Loneliness is one of the worst emotions I've ever felt.
And I think for me, it's like shattering that idea of, I should always feel good and also trying to experience it in a way that I'm like, okay, I am feeling the range of the human experience. I'm trying to give myself permission to not always feel amazing and people who know me, probably would describe me as happy and positive.
And that's very true. And even though that's true to give myself permission for times when I don't feel that way. Right.
Barbara: And when we're teenagers going to college, there are still skills that we have to learn and feeling lonely sucks. And then after a while we gained some new skills in reaching out to people. I'm an introvert by nature, but to reach out to people to say, okay, I got to join a book group, or for me it's to join a choir and find my people. And sometimes people need to learn how to do that.
Sundae: that's why it's, so de-stabilizing when people move abroad for the first time, especially if you were raised in a faith community. I grew up every Sunday, we would go to church, I knew what the coffee smelled like, I know what the cookies tasted like. I knew all the ladies with gray hair and they all knew me.
And so that's like a safe nest. And leaving a community that's close like that and then moving abroad can be really destabilizing for people when all of a sudden what they thought was just normal is stripped away.
Barbara: How do you find ways of connecting with other people who might have similar interests when you get to a new place? That's a challenge to figure out, okay, how am I going to find my people or at least a person.
Sundae: even though I'm a confident person, I don't mind being in public at events and stuff. I still kind of get shy in a group of new people. I don't know their history. I don't know who knows who, who what's the relationship dynamic. So I suddenly feel like a little girl, going to school for the first day and I've got my brand new book bag.
And so what I've realized, what really helps me is instead of feeling the awkwardness and being the one against the wall, listening. I like to lead with something I can offer. So for example I had to leave Burkina Faso very quickly and go to Switzerland with my two boys while my husband stayed in Burkina.
And I said, Hey, I'm new in town. I knew one woman through a mutual friend and I said, I'm going to have a girls night, who do you know any girls that want to come over? So I was hosting. I flipped the dynamic where then they were a guest and they were new to my space. So I had wine and cheese and it helped me feel more comfortable.
Another time I've had workshops where I've said, I'm new to the community, I'm going to do a workshop on expert fatigue. And I would introduce myself to the community through something that I had I felt comfortable in. And so that's a reversal.
Barbara: That's fabulous. And I'm assuming ex-pat fatigue is I'm kind of sick and tired of this right now- no offense. I don't mean to sound negative Nelly.
Sundae: but it's that fatigue like I've been doing fatigue or COVID fatigue. Well, you've been doing it for 12 years. Exoticism is weight off. You've lost people. You've missed. So, you know, CR baptisms you've missed funerals. Like you're just over the transitions.
And you could invite people in your community based on maybe you can cook a souffle. Cause I can't. So maybe you can cook something that other people can't cook, and that would be a way to invite people in your space and share something
Barbara: we don't have to wait around for someone to invite us. We can just be brave and even if it's three or four people, that's great.
Sundae: it's also giving, it's using generosity as a way to connect.
Barbara: I love that. I am all about being honest. I just want to let you know that I sometimes feel badly that some faith groups might come across as harsh or judgmental towards certain people. And I'm more liberal and welcoming, but yet I know I'm not perfect.
And this has sometimes led me to feel rejected as well. Have you noticed whether people hesitate to share their faith early in the getting to know each other process?
Sundae: Well, I've noticed that professionally. It's really interesting. So recently I've had clients come into my field where later in our client relationship, they'll tell me that they go to Bible study.
I even had someone asked me after a group event, whether it was okay if they shared how much their faith was important to them. And I do a very clear onboarding where I talk about, this is a safe space for diversity, bring who you are. We will be open inclusive. So I really try to make a point that religion is among them.
I've noticed a theme among the Christian women that are my clients, that it almost seems to be an aspect of their identity. They either don't share or minimize. And I'm wondering if they're being ostracized in communities? I'm wondering if there's almost a feeling of nonacceptance. I don't know. What have you seen, Barbara?
Barbara: I had completely the opposite experience. I can't speak for a lot of military installations in the United States, but the two that I was associated with in Germany had strong chapel programs.
Not everybody went to chapel or not everybody went to Bible study, but I felt immediately connected through Bible study. But even as people are getting to know each other, I don't walk down the street saying, Hey, I'm Lutheran.
So I'm really glad that you're bringing this up. What does that mean when we get to new places with our own identity and self-declaring it? Because I don't want people to be freaked out like, Oh, are you going to be one of those people who are going to, is there fear involved?
Sundae: Right. And I mean, I grew up so context you know, if you are in a space where you feel that conversations around faith are going to be a conversion effort, there's there can be a defense that comes up. And I think that's, what's very different when people share from their heart and say, this is how my faith impacts me.
I think that's a different conversation. That's an intimacy. And that's, that's beautiful. And I have friends who are Muslim and I asked, so how do you practice eat and why is that important to you? And when you can have permission to ask questions about things that you're maybe naive about.
And share reflections. I think it's a wonderful way to build community, but it depends on people's past. What experiences they've had and, and people always bring their history with them. So I think it's an interesting thing to navigate. I always wonder professionally, how relevant is my faith or spiritual practice in my work? Right. Is it relevant for people to know where I stand? I don't have that answer. I think for some people it is relevant. I've done work for nonprofits that were Christian community organizations and in the selection process, they did ask me about my faith.
And that was interesting because I've never had a corporate institution asked me about that. But I think that it depends on the context, right?
Barbara: I'm nervous. Cause I just had that exact experience. I applied for a job and they asked for my LinkedIn profile and my Twitter feed. And the only thing that's been on either of those for the last six months is every week I put up the podcast and it was just a regular secular job having nothing to do with the church.
And I don't have any idea what they're going to think if they're even going to look, but if they're going to see all these podcasts, if they're not going to hire me, cause I put out a Bible study podcast, that's okay with me. It would really be too bad, but it could be a risk or it could be possibly a helpful situation.
Sundae: And then what do you do with that? I think it depends on how, from a faith perspective, how much does it define you in what part of it is, is it of your life? And for me, it's one aspect of many layers. And for other people, it might be the most important layer.
Barbara: Well, I really appreciate that you shared that you have an inclusivity statement when you're welcoming people. And I think that's great because people do want to feel safe and I've learned a lot more taking anti-racism workshops recently. And for social work, I have to get continuing education.
So I took one cause I need to know more about the LGBTQ plus community. So feeling safe is a huge concept for a lot of people, but I wouldn't have any problem if you had asked me when I went to you for coaching, does my faith play a part of it? Because when I put post-it notes up for the business plan that I was working on with you, one of my post-it notes is pray without ceasing and that's in the Bible, but I don't know if I said to you, Oh, I wrote a post-it note on pray without ceasing. Cause I had a whole bunch of post-it notes about a bunch of different things that I was organizing.
Sundae: I always try to make sure that I'm holding space for that. Like if I don't go to Bible study, it's totally okay with me if you go to Bible study, right.
It's one of those things where I want to really make sure my energy is giving that clear signal. Right. And I think I feel self-conscious about it sometimes because I do want people to feel safe. Right. And I just want to give kudos to pretty LeBron because I've done anti-racism training as well.
And she is the one who coached me through the importance of creating a safe space and putting community assumptions around, Hey, this is how we're going to operate. And this is where our boundaries are. And so that's how I came to start doing that.
Barbara: And anything that we talk about that could be a resource for others, I'll put that on the podcast website, which is 40 minutes of faith.com.
So the book that you had mentioned, and this training, as well as your own business links, I'll be putting all of those on the website. I am curious, how have you personally coped with the current world health crisis for the past year? And what have you noticed about how people are coping in particular when faith and uncertainty intersect?
Sundae: listen, when times get tough, we all start praying. I've gone to God, I've gone to white Buffalo calf woman. I've gone to all that. When things have been scary in my life, I I'll try to draw on any sort of interpretation of a higher power.
If your child is, if their life is at risk or if there is a sickness, that's where you go back to what you were taught and hope, hope. That is true. So during this crisis, I think there was on my part, naivite that this would be over in 12 weeks, like, Oh, in China, it was three months.
It's going to be three months here. So I was working with my people to say, Hey, let's hunker down in the next three to four months and get on the other side. Right. And that's how we showed up. And then all of a sudden it was like, Oh, wait a minute. This is going to be much longer, not so much.
And so recently I've noticed with my clients what you've seen in the news too, people are having a hard time focusing. They're slipping back in poor patterns of self-care. And because all of your coping strategies are reaching their limit.
And there's a level of unpredictability and the ex-pat community. I don't know, you know this with every bone of your body when you were away from your friends and family for a long time. You really count on that one visit a year. Correct. And for those of us who've been abroad like me for over 20 years, you take away one visit and you've taken out a significant chunk of my time and my connection ability.
So I think everybody recently hit a wall when March came psychologically, of I miss my family. I'm so fed up with this. People just hope they maintain if and not decline? Like everybody is at their absolute capacity for their resources.
But the women that I've worked with and I've worked predominantly with women this last year, they have have said, okay, I don't want to just binge on Netflix and hate myself after it here. I want to maintain connection. I want to take care of myself and I want to keep working towards my goals.
They've really shown up. And through our process taught themselves new ways of taking care of themselves. So the silver lining in all of this is when we returned to a normal that we can exhale from, we'll have new new competencies and new coping strategies that will serve us for the rest of our life.
Barbara: So we may feel sort of trapped or stuck, but you have been working with people who may say, I can't get on an airplane right now for various different reasons, but I really want to take this time as best as I can to refocus on something new.
Sundae: Or I'm going to reconnect with my parents over zoom differently. I'm going to write a love letter to my best friend and tell her how much I care about her and really using it as a new opportunity. And if we can do that in these crazy circumstances, imagine how strong we will be on the other side, when things calm down.
Barbara: So we don't have to give up and feel helpless, even though it's okay to feel helpless. But is there anything proactive to be done with communication maybe in a different way?
Sundae: you're so right. It's okay to feel helpless. However you feel right now is totally okay. And I don't want to prescribe, there is a good way to do this in a bad way to do this. I think the first thing that people should do is just be really clear how they feel like don't numb it.
Don't ignore it again. It goes back to the passage we talked about if sitting in it. And not escaping from it. And learning from that, like, why is this so debilitating? Why do I feel like my world is upside down and learning from that? Without shame.
And it's also stripped away a ton of distraction. So it's like, I can't hide from myself anymore. I can't hide from my relationship. I can't hide from my kids. I can't hide from my health. And I think that is the gift. It might be kind of one of those gifts that we get at a party that we want to just put immediately in the basement. But deep down, you know, you should unwrap it and take a good look at it.
Barbara: so true. And then this is when you had mentioned some of the folks that you're working with them. This is the opportunity when we have to face it, are we going to self-medicate with whatever? Is it food? Is it exercises it alcohol?
Sundae: So I hope it creates a strength in people that they didn't know they had and builds new capacity. That when we're on the other side of this, whatever that looks like we have that capacity for other things. Because we're not just facing a health crisis, we've got a social justice crisis, we've got an environmental crisis and I hope that it breaks us open.
Like it breaks our hearts open in new ways. And not that everybody needs to be in that space because many people who are from marginalized communities have had enough, right. They need to be protected. But for those of us who are from dominant identities and need to wake up to some of these realities around social justice or the environment that will create more space. And for us to be more active participants.
Barbara: Well said. Whose voice is missing from this conversation about faith and global life?
Sundae: it almost puts me in that uncomfortable position because my identity is so mainstream. I'm heterosexual. I identify the gender I was assigned at birth. I'm, middle-class, I'm white. I'm able bodied. So for me, even to claim who's voices, mistake feels like an appropriation, but I think right now, what's missing is those who come from dominant identities to really listen, really listen, like with your heartbroken open to those who are saying, Hey, this is no longer okay. Whether it's around environmental racism or inequities. And it's so easy to not listen because we have so much comfort that protects us.
Barbara: we benefit from some of the negative aspects, some of the oppression, even if we're not doing it on purpose.
Sundae: complacency is so easy because you can just go on with your own life. And I have a really good friend, she's lesbian. And she says, Sunday, you don't have to navigate every single day, every conversation, whether you out yourself and whether that will be a physical risk.
And it's like, listen to the people who are coming from marginalized identities, because we are part of that whole system. So I think that is a very blanket statement, but One of the things we're learning about the COVID crisis is how interconnected we are global.
And I can sense I'm feeling pessimism coming in when I really want to be optimistic. Like, I want to say that we'll listen to each other and things will change, but we've been waiting for hundreds of years for things to change, but I'm hoping that there'll be enough of a shift with those easy converts.
Barbara: hopefully faster rate than what we've been doing with the one at a time until now.
Sundae: Like we get the easy converts. Faster. And that will make a momentum that will make a shift. Whose voice do you think is missing?
Barbara: I appreciate your wide perspective on this because the dominant voices are louder or have more access to being broadcast either in the media of any variety. So I completely agree with you. And we've talked about being called to be brave, if you're feeling lonely and you've moved somewhere new. And it's easy just to stay put, I know people who sometimes don't leave their house.
And I know it's hard when you have young children or you might be feeling blue yourself, or you don't know where to go and navigating a whole new place is an emotional challenge as well as a physical challenge. So I want to honor that, but yeah. I think even the voice of the earth and the voice of the animals. There's a word in the Bible that says dominion and how do we interpret that? Do we interpret dominion as plunger? Or do we interpret dominion as stewardship and caring?
Sundae: That is something that I could totally stand behind. And that's again to the interconnectedness.
And when I think about the expat context, one voice that's missing is the voice of those that are lonely. Those who are feeling like they're not thriving. One of the cliches I hate hearing in English about let's not just survive, let's thrive.
And so people are just trying to get by, like maybe the missing voice is that not everybody is living an adventure and are struggling and having courage to say that. And people in my community have said, Hey, I was suffering from clinical depression or, I didn't leave my space for three months because I was afraid to engage. Like more people sharing their hard stories to normalize that. And also to say you don't have to do this on your own. It's not a failure if this is hard, it's hard. So I think we need a little bit more voice around that, more permission.
And believe me, I am one of the first people that would say I've struggled with asking for help. It took me to be 31 and have an iron deficiency after my first baby and be with my dream job, but physically depleted to say, I need help. I went into the doctor's office and he was like, Sunday, your blood levels.
I was at like 12 and he said from 25 and under you absolutely have to have treatment. And he's like, why are you coming in here with the iron level of 12? Why didn't you come in earlier? And I'm like, Oh, you know, it was that turning point for me to go, Oh, it's not a sign of weakness.
If I can't do it all by myself, like I had to get that far. So I hold my hand up to say guilty on that one myself, and I think we just need to talk about that more. Well, that's
Barbara: a perfect example of in social work, you have to rule out any physical situation before you diagnose, say for example, depression. And sometimes it looks kind of the same at thyroid condition. So people might think that they're depressed, but how about vitamin D or your iron or your rule that out, and you can be depressed at the same time as you have other situations, but at least if you're getting treated for something that's medical and then you think, okay, I'm not just being, you know, lazy. I can't even get out of bed. There's a lot of different reasons that that might be. I'm really glad you said that.
Sundae: as a mom with a newborn, you're supposed to be tired. Like I started crying like completely unprompted twice, and I was like, this is not normal. And imagine if I had gotten unattended, then I would feel like a failing mother who was slipping into depression and not treating the physical symptoms.
Barbara: I've heard from other people that said they didn't know how bad they felt until they started taking that iron. And then they felt like a million bucks and they thought, gosh, I was really in bad shape and didn't even understand how bad it was.
Sundae: Yep, exactly. And especially when we're talking about the ex-pat context, it goes back to people have real needs. Basic needs for connection needs for vitamin D need for iron. And when we're not doing well, let's really try to find out what that need is and try to meet it. That's a whole thing of counseling as the whole thing of coaching- what are the unmet needs and how do we meet them?
Barbara: And I want to lift up and honor that many people pray for their own health situation, you know, please God help me with the situation. I absolutely want to support them that, but I don't want to say only pray and don't go to the doctor. I feel perfectly comfortable saying absolutely pray and go to the doctor that this is not something that you need to feel personally. Like I'm not praying hard enough. God isn't healing me.
I do believe that people have healing experiences, but not every case of iron deficiency or vitamin D deficiency or whatever is going to be healed through prayer. Not all of the prayers that we lift up get answered in the way that we want them to.
Sundae: think of that joke about a man was drowning in a river and he prayed to God and he said, you know, I sent you a helicopter. I sent you a boat, why didn't you accept my help?
Barbara: God has equipped medical people to help us. And there might not be anything physically. And then that's a whole other conversation, but at least rule it out.
Sundae: I loved how you talked about how sometimes support comes to us in ways that we weren't expecting. And that's something that I'm working on right now. So one of my new practices and a spiritual practice is meditation. And I used to think of meditation as a wellness activity sort of to relax my mind. And recently it has been way, way deeper than that. And the methodology that I use from Joe Dispenza talks about how we create the design and how it comes to be is not up to us.
And you hear in religious communities of give it to God. And it's like, what is in my heart? What am I asking for? And then how that will manifest might not look like what we thought it would be. And that's maybe where my agnostic comes in of allowing the mystery and watching the mystery unfold of how is this going to unfold in my life and what will emerge in with exactly the right medicine for me at the time. Hm.
Barbara: And some people have many different experiences or understandings, even of meditation. I have a harder time in a completely silent meditation. And I know it's not the same thing as a guided meditation, but yeah.
Meditation when someone else is saying like, pretend you're walking down the beach, except they say it in a really soothing voice or walking through the forest, I just do better with that. So I just want to kind of say if you've tried meditation and you think, well, all I'm thinking about is the grocery list or my monkey mind kind of gets going.
And then some people may think of prayer as sitting quietly in prayer. Absolutely can be sitting quietly, but there's just different approaches two ways of connecting both with yourself, quieting your soul, as well as then looking towards the future or just being open and accepting to what is now, or maybe what is coming that might not be, I've talked about this in Bible studies before with folks, we like to kind of give God our list.
Like, okay, God, here's what I think would be a great plan, which is really not what we're encouraged to do. But I would just love to hear how can we support each other at a distance?
Sundae: this idea of connection at a distance is really important. Like how can you really love on your people? And that might be you wish that you were together, but don't focus on I wish. Like if I could, but what is possible and a gesture of surprising a family member with a video message from you or an audio message can help create that intimacy that you're missing.
One thing I have been guilty of in the past is I've struggled in and tried to figure it out myself, instead of sharing with people saying, you know what. I kind of been missing for three, four weeks, but I've had a hard time and here's what was hard.
And I just wanted you to be up to speed on what's in my life. You don't need to fix it or give me advice. I just want you to know how I'm doing, because if we were in person and having a cup of coffee, that would probably happen. But because we're mediated through a WhatsApp or FaceTime or something, we don't automatically do that. So we have to be really intentional with doing that.
Barbara: and honest and vulnerable because I wouldn't normally put a post on Facebook that says I'm really feeling kind of blue and unmotivated today. I would put up the picture from the day trip that we took - we tend to put our best face forward. And is that always really helpful?
Sundae: I have a way that I check in with a few of my people. I'm like, how are you doing comma, Really? And if anyone is struggling with things that are related to ex-pat life. Don't hesitate to reach out. And I'd love to support in any way that I can.
Barbara: Thank you for your time!
Sundae: Thank you so much.
Resources:
2 Corinthians 4:17-18
Life is in the Transitions by Bruce Feiler
Trudi Lebron (anti-racism)
Website: https://www.sundaebean.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SundaeSchneiderBeanLLC
Twitter: @SundaeBean
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sundaeschneiderbean/
Podcast: https://www.sundaebean.com/expat-happy-hour/
Joe Dispenza (meditation)
