Barbara: Hi everyone- welcome to 40 minutes of faith. My name is Barbara Cox and I host this weekly podcast to explore God's word and our relationship with God today's guest is Brian huddle, and we're going to be talking about faith during deployment. I met Brian in Germany and he's originally from Ohio and has lived in eight different places with assignments in California, Germany, Washington, Korea, North Dakota, Arkansas, and deployments to Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Qatar, and is currently living in upstate New York.
Brian was raised Methodist and has been a military member for 20 years. He retired last year and works as a defense contractor for the army. Brian is married to Stephanie and has three boys and three girls and his dreams are to own his own business someday to help people in the military, transition to the civilian world. Welcome Brian, how are things for you and your family?
Brian: doing very well. Thank you.
Barbara: Our Bible verse today is the 23rd Psalm. And I don't usually read from the King James version, but for today I selected the new King James version.
“The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside the still waters. He restores my soul; He leads me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the Valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You anoint my head with oil; My cup runs over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life. And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
Brian has Psalm 23 been meaningful to you in your life?
Brian: Oh, yes. Yes. I've recited this many, many times, especially pre deployment and maybe during the deployment. There was one in particular an instance heading into the uncertainty in Iraq. And there's so there's so much uncertainty to begin with.
And this particular verse is the one that would always repeat in my head just to make sure that I was prepared and it always gave me comfort as well. And I always liked the part “I will fear no evil”- take evil how you wish. And I think we all can relate that anything negative in a way could be considered evil, but that's kind of the way that I took it.
And it was teaching me to try to have more faith in God, in what I'm doing. And it just gave me a comfort.
Barbara: I suspect that a lot of people feel that way. And I also do want to lift up at the same time that we're looking about how we can gain comfort and confidence with God.
It's also important to me that we talk about the concept that we feel doubt and people in the Bible felt doubt. I just have one verse from Isaiah 49, verse 14 in the living Bible.
“Yet they say my Lord deserted us. He has forgotten us.”
So I'm not trying to talk out of both sides of my mouth, but just to honor, even in the same day, we could feel different ways that we want to obviously encourage people in their faith. But at the same time to acknowledge, you're not alone. You're not a weirdo. You're not a bad person if you have doubts or fears. Does that kind of make sense?
Brian: It's part of the human condition. We put as much faith into the Lord and into God as much as we can. And then when certain things may not go the way that we were expecting them to, we wonder, did God desert us? And of course, you gotta be careful cause maybe there's another reason that this one thing is not happening, or maybe since we're talking deployment, maybe this is an experience that I need to experience in this deployment and get through it and maybe it's a test of my own faith.
And I think even back then, a lot of them were having their faith tested multiple times over and over. But yeah, I like that one as well.
Barbara: as we're talking about the deployment cycles, it's okay to talk about faith and honoring that sometimes there can be doubt and fear in our lives, in addition to looking to God for comfort and sustenance. So some people think of deployment starting the day you leave the house, but for military families and military members, deployment starts way before you actually leave. I'm wondering how do faith and fear influence our thoughts and actions during the pre-deployment phase?
Brian: It can be very rough. I know my one year remote tour in Korea was almost devastating to all the kiddos. Just because of the time and duration. And I knew about this well in advance and then there's times where orders drop and you got to pack your bags and be out the door within 72 hours.
And there's no time for anyone to process any of it. And so having faith within that family dynamic helps families out big time because when those things happen, there's no delay. And as long as the family is very supportive in their faith is together in the family.
It's I think it's easier for them. I think when you have this really large amount of time prior to the deployment or a remote tour, that's when things start to be very rollercoaster and you'll have these highs and lows and having faith though together in the family definitely helped.
Barbara: I'm thinking that might look like praying together or any other examples of kind of faith within a family?
Brian: Oh, sure. I know we were getting into meditating altogether as well, and praying before dinner and making sure that we all could share our feelings and bring it out on the table.
So everybody understood where everybody was at with it. Cause it's a stressful, you don't even know what you're doing. And so for the member, they're focused on mission, mission, and they are also trying to be a husband, a wife, and a father, mother, and everyone's trying to balance that dynamic and things shift. And it's a very challenging period.
Barbara: I am so glad to hear you say, just being willing to talk about the real feelings, because it's a risk you're vulnerable to say I'm so afraid that something terrible could happen or even I'm really angry that this is happening, or it's not fair, or some people are actually okay. They don't even mind. What if you're kind of happy that this deployment is happening for various different reasons?
Brian: I've come across folks that are kinda like that, and actually some folks I've seen it all, where it brought people together because you're also trying to communicate back to home in different ways.
And one of my deployments in 2003, cell phone technology wasn't as high tech in everyone's hand. So that 15-minute phone call meant the world to both people and that helped to strengthen those family ties and bonds that you have.
It's an interesting thing that happens for the military member and the military in general, when you're in it and you signed up for it, these are those things that I think our recruiter really can't tell you. And a lot of learning happens throughout whether you do four years and get out or you do 20 and get out there.
All that constant learning. And it's a very interesting dynamic compared to the rest of the civilian world that, somebody may have a difficult time with a person leaving for like two weeks versus a six-month deployment and come back, or nine months, or a year.
Barbara: military members and families are trying to not roll their eyes and say, don't feel sorry for yourself, because that's just not a nice thing to say right now. We're like two weeks? That's nothing.
I don't know if you had any in between locations, Brian. I know my husband had actually a lengthy training period between leaving home and getting to the deployed location. So it was kind of this in between could be stateside, could be overseas. Did you have any of that? And what was that like in terms of the faith journey?
Brian: One in particular I call it the Iraqistan tour because at the time I was a single parent and I had to put a lot of faith and trust into my ex-wife for my boys to stay with her. So for me, it wasn't so bad. Because we said our goodbyes around the first of the year. That way, the boys could go to school. They finished up half a year with me, and then they finished up the rest of it with her.
I think what's unfortunate is when folks get that short notice deployment and then they go and all of a sudden training switches up, or they're not very specific and the evolving tasks that's going on.
Yeah, even the military member could be very confused because orders change, mission changes. And the next thing you know, you thought you were going to a training for two weeks. It turns into two months, or you bounce around stateside, overseas, back home.
It can all be confusing, but when all of that happens, stay with like-minded people. Talking to chaplains, just talking to people of your own faith or belief system helps. And you gotta be quick with that. Because the worst thing that you want to do is kinda wallow in your own sadness or loneliness.
And that just makes all of this 10 times worse and causes issues and pain that not saying it could be completely avoided, but you want to get to those resources and people to talk to and begin that communication bond back. And that's a key aspect and the chaplains are always there to help.
I met quite a few chaplains over the years and some of them with their background and maybe their way of I'm here, if you need me and. Which is great, but then some of them though want to do that above and beyond.
And no matter what, I think it's those people you want to reach out to and find and talk to because the other ones have so many other units that they're juggling and they may not be dedicated to your specific unit and not available when you may need them, but by linking up with them and knowing who they are right off the bat, that's absolutely critical for folks to help with their faith.
Barbara: I've seen chaplains that have a whole bunch of different assignments that they're taking care of. And you may say, well, that's typical military people usually have more assignments to do than there are hours in the day, but when it comes to spiritual care, I have seen embedded with units are assigned to weekly worship services or Bible studies or whatever, and they're really running around. So if it's someone who's either more available or less available to know at least who they are and then to access them whenever possible.
Brian: Exactly. Yep. Totally agree.
Barbara: Any stories from deployments, Brian?
Brian: you read the Bible and you always are curious on, what is it like over there? I had a Bible that had a map. Mesopotamia area, I was there, and it would always cross my mind, especially in Iraq where we're walking around and here- we are intense and carrying weapons and wearing the uniform. But yet some of these grounds, you just wonder, man, it was Jesus around like, like was I able, you know, was anybody in the Bible around this area?
And it would be amazing to go to some of the other countries that, like Jerusalem, just to see and be there and walk through there. But on the flip side, you see all the chaos that's going on over there as well. And so it's almost like they're these two opposites where it feels so odd to be in such a Holy place with people and doing these military styled missions.
And I was grateful for the opportunity to go there and awesome opportunity to actually be there and walk through those sands that you wonder, did someone else, so many years ago walked through there as well?
Barbara: And the Tigris and Euphrates rivers are specifically mentioned in Genesis. And when Jonah was swallowed by the whale, he was actually on the way to modern day Iraq. And he said, no, I don't want to go. And then that's a whole nother story. So absolutely you were in the places of our biblical heritage at the time.
I heard about baptisms also happening. I can't remember which of those rivers, but of American military members during their deployments that were baptized over there.
Brian: And I wanted to and wasn't able to do have that opportunity. Mainly because the battalion we fell under cause I'm air force and we were working for the army, they left early. And they gave us options on where to go either cut the tour short and go back home or continue.
So I ended up continuing and went over to Afghanistan. And so I wasn't able to actually do that, but I've heard other members that are able to get baptized in those rivers and I'm like, man, that's a pretty powerful message and definitely Something that you can talk about that a lot of people may not be able to experience.
Barbara: and stateside baptisms are a hundred percent valid, so we're not extra envious, but I agree with you that must have been pretty amazing. Even seeing a photo, made me get all teary and sentimental, but you got to go where they send you.
I know that a lot of people then also think, okay, so the deployment ends in your home and that's it. But to our experience, there's two or three different phases. You don't just go from one day, you're in a deployment. And then the next day you're home- there's a whole kind of pre homecoming phase to when the deployment is kind of wrapping up and the military members and their families are looking forward to that reunion. Any thoughts or experiences for you guys on that?
Brian: when you start looking at the clock and time's ticking down and your bags are all packed up or they're finally palleted and you're waiting on the aircraft, it's like, Oh, finally, we're getting there, we're getting there. And then, the long flight, and then you spend the night in a hotel and you finally make your way home.
If you haven't been discussing or having that solid foundation with your family, you walk into this interesting dynamic because for the past X amount of months, your spouse or significant other has been doing two duties and in that family dynamics. So I remember myself coming back from Korea and oh, so the kids were starting to do some of these things that I normally would do, and you have to stay very positive and keep open your feelings because the whole family had changed. And in a way, they got used to the military member being gone. And where I think a lot of conflict ends up happening is they're not discussing how they feel or how that dynamics changed.
You were just excited to get letters and emails and phone calls, just keeping in touch, but a lot of the day in and day out stuff you didn't really get to experience. So once you get integrated back into, Hey, we're a family again. The roles begin to maybe shift a little and it's during that shift is typically a lot of conflict can occur, but staying loving and kind as much as possible.
That always helps too, to make that transition a lot smoother. I know a lot of different family support centers we'll have integration dinners and they'll host these events to bring the people that just come back from a deployment and their families all come together and share and talk and be open.
I know they were doing that at my last duty assignment in Little Rock, and I thought that was a great thing. And it's something that I think they evolved along with the chaplains and some of the other folks to say, Hey, there's a lot of conflict and some of it is probably going to happen only because we're human and we're trying to get back into the way things were prior to the deployment, but we lose sight of that during it. And then when we come back, we expect things to be the same and things are a little different and yeah, those opportunities that I highly encourage folks if they are able to, try to engage in those type of events or stick with your church, community or other communities that you're involved with to openly share and discuss your feelings, to keep things very transparent. So people understand where you're coming from and try to avoid those unfortunate things as much as possible.
Barbara: just as a reminder, chaplains do have a hundred percent confidentiality. So that's another bonus in terms of just being honest about what's going on and yeah, they might say, Hey, I really think you could benefit from these other resources, if they're concerned about something, but that they're a great resource to turn to. And then these workshops, the post-deployment workshops as well as for guard and reserve members, there's yellow ribbon weekends, and then there's a whole bunch of other resources that are not faith related for military families as well.
So any other thoughts on the deployment wrapping up and adjustment to homecoming?
Brian: Some tips on the Pre deployment, during the deployment and post deployment, keeping a very, very positive outlook as much as possible and whatever your faith is. And I've even heard folks that find their faith during these during these deployments. One way or the other.
You've got to reach out and be very open and honest on how you feel. The military is a very different job, period. You will be asked to do things that you may not want to do or may not understand, but there's always a mission and a mission focus and that military member is going to be dragged into that direction. And the more of a positive outlook you have on the whole situation, the better it's going to be for everyone.
Now for transitioning folks, my faith was tested a lot. I was deciding to retire and had my paperwork and it was approved. And then around the first of the year, 2020 is when I started really hitting the resume building and in jobs and networking and all that. And about 250 applications later, after living in a hotel for two and a half months or so, finally landed a job. It was rough. Not feeling worth it, feeling like you made a mistake.
I feel there's a few folks that kind of knew what they wanted to do so the transition was easy for them. And then some other folks may already have something lined up. Some folks aren't even working because maybe their rank and what their retirement or whatever. But my little percentage are the people that have had asked, what do I want to do?
Or what would I like to do? And it's scary if, if there's nothing lined up and you're trying to relocate, which that in itself is a challenge. But you have to have faith and try to keep the doubt as low as possible. It's very easy for folks to just give up. I tried, I'm done.
Barbara: 250 job applications. That's a lot.
Brian: Oh, I had more rejection letters. I mean, yes, we have the pandemic, but what I didn't understand was the amount of networking that I should have been doing and quality connections so that I could understand what the business world really looks like.
And a transition assistance program it's changed over the years. There's like a small percentage of people that do not know what they're walking into. And I was one of them not knowing what was going to come, but having faith absolutely helped. It was just this rollercoaster of emotion.
It was so difficult. Questioning yourself, doubting your worth, is this opportunity going to happen? Is this one, is this one? Sometimes I wouldn't hear anything. I'm absolutely blessed to be with the company that took a chance with me. And I enjoy the job. It's just I want to help folks a little bit more understand that you don't have to stay where you retire. You can relocate, you can do virtually whatever you want to do. You just have to narrow down what that one thing is. And through all of this, I've never read the Bible more, going back to a few passages, doing prayers.
And it's funny because Psalm 23 is one that I would recite not only during the deployment, but just when I was there at the Days Inn trying to figure out, am I doing the right thing? I'm so afraid.
Barbara: It didn't feel like green pastures.
Brian: No, not at all. Definitely a test of one's faith and the family as well. Well, because sometimes people can relocate for the job. We were relocating to find a job. And that takes a whole different dynamic on going to a new place, experiencing new things.
Barbara: you had some close calls too, in terms of jobs, because I remember thinking even in the first place that you and the family had so much faith moving halfway across the country to a place and you thought this is where this was the right place to be.
And then there's kind of a roller coaster ride. So I want to also just offer encouragement to folks if you're kind of in the middle of the rollercoaster ride. And you're like, I don't see a green pasture anywhere. There's other parts of the Bible that talk about that. This life is not always going to be easy. We're running a race, maybe going through some struggles. There are green pastures, but we might not every day of every year of our lives be in the middle of a green pasture.
Brian: Oh, exactly. But what I think it also does is it makes you more resilient to change, resilient in your own personal being in the way the family has come together.
A really good friend of mine had mentioned, if we wanted to get up and move and go do something else, guess what? We've already done it. And it's exciting to think Hey, we've already done this, so it can't be that bad. It's just that it felt so desperate and despairing because of all the unknowns, but you keep that faith up and you keep pushing forward.
You're going to find something. Something's going to stick. And then I learned also during this, that you get rejected. You know, nobody wants to be rejected. And for military members, perfection is key. You gotta be perfect and everything has to be sharp.
Barbara: I have not submitted anywhere near 250 applications. So I now have my goal in mind and that's not even a guarantee, either. The rejection doesn't mean that we are no good. It just means there's somebody else. And what's the next opportunity? Even if it's another “no”, but to keep going. Like you said, we were brought up of like, I need to do everything just the very best that I can and what's wrong with me if they don't want me, but that's not what it's about.
Brian: And having faith in yourself is absolutely critical because when you do get those rejection letters in your life, I've really thought I was going to get this. It's more of the networking piece and it's who you know, and those personal relationships make the business world really go around.
We need to always be constantly communicating and networking with one another because that's our huge support network. And we miss a lot of our friends and some of our assignments where things were just fun and we had a great connection to everyone, but you get to build that again and having faith in that and building those relationships back up that's key.
Barbara: I appreciate that. You already mentioned a couple of resources, but I just thought I would check in if there's any additional resources that we might want to mention to people. I do have a book that we haven't talked about anything along these lines, but I wanted to recommend a book called Downrange to Iraq and Back by Dr. Cantrell and Chuck Dean. And just wondering if you have any thoughts, Brian, on sort of faith and asking for help or faith in just getting the resources that you need, especially post deployment and transitioning out?
Brian: For those that are still in, always reach out to the chaplain and get some of their perspective on things. There's always the family support centers that are there to help you. And I would use them. I mean, they're getting paid there to try to help you get transition ready so that you can go out into the world. And I definitely used them and they had a lot of programs.
So making connections there, like once a month, as you begin to transition out, or even after you get back from your deployment, always reach back out because maybe they didn't advertise a class or maybe they had some free literature, books or something there that you can get access to. And really to help you. All of this is to help.
Barbara: It's not meant at all to say that we don't know what we're doing and also I don't want to put people in a box. I would never say, well, everybody who comes back is going to have all these problems. But what if we can't even see that there is either an issue or a resource that can help us that we're not even aware of or someone else might see something that we don't see?
Brian: Right. And the family will know that you're acting different. Some folks have a lot of PTSD things that happen. And the thing is, it's on both people in that family unit that recognize it to talk about it in a calm way. And then let's try to go to resources to help, and it's imperative.
Barbara: is getting the help easy is getting those appointments for your VA, how easy is that process?
Brian: when you transition out, and other branches do it a little different, and if you're already out and you didn't get it in connection with the VA, there's always a veteran service. Officer, VSO, they call them. They're basically your representative to the VA to try to get all the appointments moving just have faith and it'll happen eventually. It's frustrating and it's a little confusing but call them. One thing I've learned is you can make things happen.
And it's supposed to take two months buying a house as an example, two months to buy a house. Now I was able to push, get a house purchased within a month in upstate New York where everybody said the average was like two and a half to three months or something crazy like that. And I began to have this more determined mindset.
I said, no, I got a job. Let's buy this house. And same thing with the VA stuff. I started calling and calling and calling and I was able to get it pushed through. It definitely was not timely, but it had nothing to do with me. But if you're needing help, you need to reach out- the veterans service organizations that the VA representatives, those are the people to contact, let them know. Another person to contact would be your senators or other public officials to let them know what's going on with it.
And get the pressure to get those things moving. And once you've made a couple phone calls, then you notice how smooth things work. And it definitely helps because it's your life, you're trying to file a claim or whatever you need help with, or resources, it's yours. And if you don't have them, you got to get them.
Barbara: And the reason that I mentioned the question is that I think sometimes people can go through, it doesn't even have to be a crisis of faith, but just sort of this doubt. And my impression is that this kind of self-advocacy that you're talking about, Brian, it's not really very military and please correct me.
But you said before you have a mission, and you do what you're told. And so when you keep having to call and call and call to advocate for yourself, does that kind of feel like a whole new way of doing things?
Brian: Oh, very much so. And when you sign up to join, you're joining this large machine that keeps moving after you're gone, and everything was towards this one particular goal. So now that I'm transitioned out, I'm a retiree. My goal is me. It's myself. It's what I want. It's what I want for my family and thinking “I” all the time in this process is very foreign to folks that are told what to do, what to wear, where to be. And I get to run my own schedule.
I have a benefit of working from home, so I do all my work in my house. So working remote is another dynamic that's different as well, but I have to be on top of things that I want to do. And I think all the challenges and struggles keeping the faith, it's all led up to that moment where I'm like, you know what? There are certain things that I may want to do. And now I have that confidence because I wouldn't have experienced it if I went a different direction. Now I have confidence in myself and my ability, and that is key. You can have that in the military also, but when you're always being kind of told what to do and where to be and all that good stuff, you'll never get to kind of break out of that.
And it's almost too late because now you're like, Hey, I just did 20 years. And I'm early forties. Why am I afraid? That there should be no need to be afraid? And as long as you stay positive with it and keep that faith, I think that once you have some of those setbacks, it kind of reteaches you. Oh, I got this. That's no big deal.
Barbara: it's okay to have faith in ourselves, in addition to having faith in God, and we have a system that we hopefully can have faith in, but it's okay to advocate too. And to say, Hey, this is what I need. This is what my family needs. I may feel like I'm kind of pestering you, but that's okay, too.
Brian: I think God places us in situations that we can handle. And it's part of this growing process. And a lot of fear is out there, but you try to eliminate as much fear as possible. Have a great family dynamic, discuss your feelings. Get to the chaplains to talk to them, even if it's just once. I mean, at least, they're there and then, be patient through it.
Set some goals during the deployment. Maybe have some family goals as well. Maybe some sort of a transformation. I know a lot of people hit the gym during deployments, both for the military member deployed and then other people that are back home, it's set up with the way technology works.
It's an interesting way to keep your faith up and it helps you to not think negative when you're already in a situation that isn't pleasant. For folks transitioning, it's a whole different world, but it is 100% possible. You just gotta stay positive and keep pushing forward. No matter what, and just try not to get to that point where you're so low, that you feel like you can't reach out for help anymore. There's always help, and there's always your family and it'll be okay.
Barbara: and we want to honor that everybody's situation looks different and you had mentioned some times were way tougher and some times maybe were not as tough. So we just want to give that word of encouragement. Thank you so much for your time, Brian.
Brian: Thank you for having me.
Resources:
Psalm 23
Isaiah 49:14
Downrange to Iraq and Back by Bridget Cantrell and Chuck Dean
Tour of Duty: Preparing our Hearts for Deployment by Sara Horn
Hope for the Homefront by Marshele Waddell
Wives of the Warriors by Ronda Sturgill