Barbara: hi everyone- welcome to 40 minutes of faith. My name is Barbara Cox and I host this weekly podcast to explore God's word and our relationship with God. Today's guest is the Reverend Jane Bearden and our topic is about loving diverse people. Jane is a native of Louisiana and Mississippi who spent much of her life in Massachusetts, where she and I met many years ago.
As a young woman, she was excluded from ordination in her denomination, so she studied to be a laboratory professional and worked in healthcare for 30 years until her ordination in 2001. When Katrina struck, Jane went to Biloxi where she served as a disaster chaplain with the red cross. Reverend Bearden served an inner city parish in Massachusetts and during that time she walked two Caminos in Spain. She retired in 2018 and returned to the Gulf coast where she serves as a pastor of a parish once completely destroyed by Katrina. Jane has three grown children and two grands, and has been the parent of a military member for 14 years. Welcome, Jane. How are things in Mississippi for you today?
Jane: Hot, we're pushing 90 now.
Barbara: today's Bible reading is from first John chapter four. If you're following along with the Bible, it's way at the back at the end of the new Testament. So I'm going to read from the inclusive Bible. First, John chapter four, verses 11 to 12 and 18 to 21.
“beloved, if God has loved us so, we must have the same love for one another. No one has ever seen God yet. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and God's love is brought to perfection in us.
There is no fear in love, for perfect love drives out fear. To fear is to expect punishment, and anyone who is afraid is still imperfect in love. We love because God first loved us. If you say you love God, but hate your sister or brother, you are a liar. For you cannot love God whom you have not seen, if you hate your neighbor, whom you have seen. If we love God, we should love our sisters and brothers as well; we have this commandment from God.”
Jane, why is this topic of loving diverse people so important to you?
Jane: loving and being in the midst of diversity, I think is the way that we understand God's nature more fully. I think that when we keep ourselves in isolated, small areas, We become self centered self interest instead of expanding. And for me, God is about expansiveness. It's about reaching out with tentacles, into all parts of creation.
Barbara: Tentacles of love, right?
Jane: Tentacles of love. Yes, absolutely, and they are pervasive and encompassing. So my science background I often try to use metaphors. And as you were saying that I was thinking about amoeba that reach out. And surround that include and bring it back in. And we say that the great mission of us in the church is to work with God, to fulfill the mission of God to pull all things back into God. So probably not the best metaphor, but one that works at least on some level.
Barbara: Sure. And the reason that I specified is because I was certain that that's what you meant, but I wonder if sometimes this passage, it's kind of saying, well, if you don't love everyone, then that's a problem. But I think it is a problem in our society that not everyone is loved. I worry that some people have been excluded and judged harshly.
Jane: right. I posted on Facebook today. A link to one of the local newspapers.
The sun Herald is a fairly widely read newspaper on the Gulf coast and in the county where I live the middle school yearbook has drawn a lot of criticism because in it, the questions that were posed to students were questions that were bullying, gaslighting questions. Who would you not want to go to the prom with?
You know, and so they targeted individuals that were not part of that inner circle. You know, it's an exclusion. And apparently this has been reported and trended through this particular school system for a number of years. Mississippi just passed a law that would exclude trans students from participating in sports and opens the door to harassment and bullying to a very vulnerable population.
So that kind of exclusion, that kind of harassment, that kind of bullying is not consistent with the love of God that is pervasive through the Bible. That constant story of God's redemption of the world our pulling away and God's drawing us back in our pulling away and God's drawing us back.
That's what love is love is, it's a constant, consistent drawing of all of creation you got.
Barbara: one of the resources that I'm going to be putting on the podcast website, which is 40 minutes of faith.com is that both of our church bodies, the ELCA Lutherans, and the Episcopal church have shown support to people who might be considered other or different or out.
And that's what we want to talk about today is why is this so important?
Jane: you will be known by your love. You're not going to be known by creeds. You're not going to be known by how well you do your job. You're not going to be known by who you marry or what you do. You're going to be known by whether or not you extend god's love to others as a vessel and as a beacon. Right.
Barbara: And so bullying and harassing do not have a place in showing God's love.
That's our fear. That's our insecurity and our judgment. And I just wanted to check in with you Jane, because the first time I heard the word gaslighting, I'm like, wait, what does that mean? So I just wanted to double check. I think it means that we sort of influenced people to think that they're being too sensitive or this mean behavior isn't real.
Jane: Belittling of someone. And actually, you know, Barbara goes both ways. I find sometimes the rhetoric of people who are trying to be inclusive sometimes it'd be little, those who are not quite there that happens with racial reconciliation. It happens with xenophobia.
It happens in all sorts of ways. We criticized them, and we are called to be just as welcoming, as loving as the next person. It kinda covers all. I also want to make a point of the church through history. Stephanie spellers has a new book out called the church cracked open, and she made a reference in some interview about the church being supportive of empire.
And that's true. The church has very much been formed and supportive of empire throughout its history. And really before Christianity came into being , it was used as a tool to control other people. So the language that we use in our liturgy today, while it's language that is traditional, and it's been spoken through the centuries and we love it.
You know, we talk about the Episcopal prayer book. Thomas Cranmer's words, we talk about the being so beautiful and how comforting it is and how we really just want to come and spend an hour being sustained and nurtured and comforted. But that's not what people of faith are called to do.
People or faith are called to be nurtured and then to go out. It's the going out and carrying that word out that makes the difference and our language in our liturgy. When our language says, turn in, the father language, the controlling language, the exclusionary language that's in there. If we don't work to rid ourselves of that language, then we’re going to stay trapped, right where we are.
One of the things that we say often is may the peace of Christ be with you. So I changed that a little bit. I say, beloved of God, the peace of Christ is always with you. It's not me telling them that I can bestow it or they can bestow it on themselves. It's there. All we have to do is grasp it.
Barbara: So one group of people that has been routinely excluded, bullied and harassed are those who may identify along a spectrum, where the acronym is LGBTQ I a plus. And so that's a whole bunch of different folks different ways of being both physically and in relationships. And I just wanted to check in with you on what have you noticed, what have you experienced that's happening in terms of mistreating a very, very large group of people?
Jane: So It's pervasive. First of all, I think that at the root of it is fear. Fear of loss of control, fear of loss of identity, fear of not knowing just the unknown. So the more we are together, the more we acknowledge and be present with each other. The more we understand and the more Welcoming, we can be on both sides.
The letters can become daunting. I'll tell you that in our publications, we talk about folks F O L X. And actually that's everyone that's not just People that are members of that particular community, but it's all of us are folks in God.
All of us are beloved of God. So I try to not use father language. I try to not use language that sounds judgmental, but language that changes the place to be a place of welcome. And in diversity and diversity, not just in our gender orientation or in identity, but diversity in who is the musician, who just loves to listen?
Both are necessary, both can be affirmed. You know, all of that diversity feeds us in ways that we just don't always appreciate right at the first time. Our particular parish, is maybe close to 30, 35% folks, members of the LGBTQ plus community. We had merged with an Episcopal mission that was founded particularly for that community and was led by Aaron Montgomery, who was a dear friend.
And came out late in life, but was a profound preacher and leader and drew people who had been shunned by the church for a long time, drew them in. And we had a common mission. So we came together and he's retired now, but many of the people in that community, it was called the lighthouse community, still worshiped with us.
And we've all become one in St. Patrick's. But our latest thing, that we're doing right now, is trying to address a real need. And I'll tell you, I wish I could say, but it's going great guns and we're going to start in September, but it's not, it is one hard, long step at a time.
One of my families in the parish has a daughter who is trans going into the ninth grade. Bullied unmercifully at school and really by administration and teachers as well as students. And so this family wanted to homeschool. So we started thinking in terms of how could we support that?
Barbara: So it was too painful for this particular young person to even be in the school?
Jane: a young person that's not being treated right. That was the kernel of an idea. And you know me, so you know that when I get an idea, I'm like a bull, I go after it with a lot of energy. So we started thinking about how could we possibly form a homeschooling pod. A place where children who were bullied at school, that their parents might not have the resources to teach them themselves, but the parents could come and be the guides in that work and the church could then possibly raise some money.
Through grants or whatever, to hire a couple of teachers for maybe three to six hours a week, that would do the heavy lifting of the sciences, math, language, things that the parents might not be able to teach, but that we could have kids come out of a homeschool environment with an education that would send them off into a world, better able to compete.
It's not easy. It is not easy. The parish is behind it, we ended up calling the project lighthouse for learning so that we draw in the community that we have. I have found online there's a Facebook group of trans parents. And better homeschooling and the pods that they've sought.
There's a lot of people out there and I've connected with some of them, mostly in the Midwest or out in different places. Not here. There's no one here locally. So we are working with P flag, it's allies and members of the LGBTQ community coming together to work for children, to raise them up in healthy ways.
And so we've invited them to meet in our facility and we've got people coming and we know that the first step it's going to build trust. Because these kids have been let down an awful lot. And so you don't want to promise something that you can't deliver, but you don't want to not take a chance if there's an opportunity.
So that's kind of where we are right now, but I am excited about it, particularly in this part of the country. That we are openly stepping out and saying, we're not going to let this happen.
Barbara: We love these kids, we don't want them to kill themselves. This is a very real issue. We're talking about God's love, but children try to kill themselves more often when they feel so bullied and rejected, whether it's because of their sexual identity or another matter as well.
Jane: I read an article that said 47% of kids who identify as trans attempt suicide at some point. That's scary.
Barbara: That is just heartbreaking because they feel rejected and judged- kids get picked on for any number of reasons. I've worn the wrong clothes. In elementary school, I ate the wrong lunch. Blah-blah-blah, but I didn't think about killing myself because I was bullied for my clothing or my food. But this is very, very serious.
Jane: It is important. You know, the story of Jesus and the woman that was being stone. So the bullying is really a 21st century equivalent of that stoning. That's what they're doing. They're slinging stones until the person absolutely dies.
Barbara: And it's causing mental health issues- could be depression. Sometimes people turn to substance abuse to try to numb the pain. And again, lots of people do that regardless of their gender identity or where they fall on the spectrum. But what we're really inviting is to consider that there's a lot of different philosophies looking at the Bible, and I'm really grateful, Jane, what you said that we also shouldn't judge people who judge harshly. If we're talking about mercy and love, then let's have compassion on everyone. But I have been taught it's my understanding God is the final judge. And yes, there are times when we can say to each other, Hey, I'm really worried about what you're doing.
Are you hurting yourself? Are you hurting other people? But when are there things that we can say, you know what? God is going to judge that. This person isn't hurting themselves. They're not hurting anybody else. Is it really my business to be saying you shouldn't be who you are.
Jane: So Barbara, I think there's a little bit of a difference between judging someone and saying to someone that particular thing that you said, or that particular thing that you did does not express God's love and the way that I understand God's love to be.
So, you remember Jane Gould? I always loved Jane because Jane could name the sin. She had no compunction about sitting with someone and naming the things. Whatever it was, so that was one of the lessons that I hope I took away from her was to not make excuses for someone when they are doing things that are hurtful and mean. That puts the sin back on me.
If I let that go without acknowledging. But we don't like to do that. You know, especially in the south, we don't like to do that. We just sell, bless her heart and we just move right on.
Barbara: I thought that was a really nice thing to say the first time I heard it. Cause I didn't really understand, but now I understand it is not a nice thing to say.
Jane: It is not a nice thing to say at all.
Barbara: I meant also that we're talking about different types of either judging or confronting people or holding each other accountable. So what I am also thinking of is what you said before that there's fear involved. Is this person going to act inappropriate around me or my kids.
And so I also really want to say that lots of people do wrong things. So I don't agree at all about this fear of, oh, someone who's gay or trans or something like that is going to act less safe. That say, for example, than someone who is straight or who doesn't identify as gay. People, unfortunately do horrible things to each other, no matter what. There is a lot of fear or just not understanding or thinking what's this all about?
Jane: I think fear is the ultimate driving force to most of the world's problems. The fear of loss of control of something we had no control over in the first place. Racism, that's fear. I'm not talking about the fear of being injured. I'm talking about the fear of losing power. Jesus never talked much about sex. I don't think he ever mentioned sex, but he sure did talk about power and money.
Barbara: That's right. And he said, whoever has not sinned cast the first stone and nobody cast the first stone.
Jane: Right. Because when you're being honest with yourself, you can't. You can't do it.
Barbara: I'm really glad you told us about some of the things that your particular congregation or this group of folks in your area is doing. And I've heard great things about this organization Pflag. I'll put that website also up and I have another one called reconciling works.
That's one of the Lutheran affiliate groups on how churches can show welcome. And one question that's on the reconciling works website is, we are welcoming of everyone. So why do we have to say so? Why is it important to be really clear who we welcome instead of just saying, everyone's welcome here?
Jane: So we don't use the word welcome. We use the word intentionally affirming.
Barbara: That's very different. That's more proactive.
Jane: It's proactive. And that was a lesson that we learned from the lighthouse community. So our language gets changed because of the open dialogue.
Okay. But we find that you might welcome someone, but you're not accepting or affirming of them, but to be intentionally affirming means that everything that we do from our barbecues to our liturgy, to our Lenten services to summer backpacks, all of it is designed to intentionally honor and uphold the diversity that we have in our congregation and any that might come from the outside. So I do like that. That was a big deal. When we took the “welcoming community” off of the marquis on the front of the church and wrote intentionally affirming. It changes things.
Barbara: Sometimes I feel like the word welcome could mean come on in and do things the way we do things already. Which on the surface, there's nothing wrong with it.
But to say we intentionally affirm if, there's say for example a couple that comes in and many people have grown up with this model of there's, a straight couple, basically a man and a woman and, or race you had also brought up.
So we intentionally affirm that there's not one and only one way that things could be or should be that folks come on in and we affirm you.
Jane: Yeah, that's right. One of the the graces of having built up some trust is that we all have idiosyncrasies that are laughable, that we can laugh at ourselves.
There's a difference between laughing at someone and laughing with someone. So for sure, all people have things that are a little funky, you know my sandals are funky. The fact that I put socks on with my sandals in the winter, down here, that draws a lot of laughter, when I come in and my socks. But being able to laugh at my own ignorance of communities, that I'm not a part of off being able to laugh at my misunderstandings.
And to know that because I'm intentionally affirming them, they're also gonna intentionally affirm me. And they're going to say you are so full of it. Let me tell you great, great. Then I learned something and when we can all begin to grow and learn and experience joy, that's when I think God is in our midst.
Barbara: Do you have some suggested language of either what to say or what to ask or what not to say and what not to ask in alignment with this intentionally affirming?
Jane: I'm learning Barbara. I'm on a real learning curve. I don't say my brothers and sisters. So, that was a common thing. Five years ago, I would've said my brothers and sisters and I would have thought I was including everyone in the group.
Barbara: because you're either a boy or a girl, or you're either a man or a woman. So that therefore you are either my brother or my sister. And we're saying no, someone may not feel like a brother.
Jane: That's not the case. So I say beloved of God. Errol taught me that.
There are a lot of hymns that I don't sing anymore. I don't let them be sung. There are some things that the father language or the exclusive language is so embedded, but it is such a familiar thing. But we use it anyway. I try to acknowledge it. I'm trying, and I think that's all we can ask of anybody is to try.
We do use folks a lot. I have reworked much of the language in the Eucharistic prayer to say, holy God, instead of holy father. I just am not comfortable anymore with it.
This coming Sunday, we're going to use creedal statement from the Iona community. That is is beautiful. And I'm not gonna just bring it in. I'm going to preach on it. I'm going to talk about the language of us being in relationship being involved and in the end, I think that intentionally affirming thing is about relationship.
I think it's being in relationship with God and with the people around us and with myself. But that, that intentionally affirming mindset brings about, it opens us up to the possibilities of relationship.
Barbara: I imagine that I would feel much more valued. I would be getting a message from you that we love each other for who we are, as we walk in the door, that it's really very affirming of who you feel like God created you to be is okay. And we're not going to try to change you. We're not going to say, oh, you need to be different from who you are.
Jane: That makes people right where they are.
Barbara: Yeah. And we all change overtime anyway. Just not everybody changes in the same direction. So we're not saying that this is the certain path.
When I meet someone who I'm just getting to know to not make assumptions. So maybe a more neutral word is partner or spouse.
Jane: One way to address that or one way to move it along is to listen for how the person talks about themselves. So for me to be open and out there about saying that, I know that you know the my oldest son is gay. And when I talk about them, I talk about my two sons and all and my one daughter-in-law and that puts everybody on the same footing.
And yes, spouse and partner, those are important words too. And if you don't know how they want to be addressed, then that's certainly appropriate.
Barbara: some people know very young in their life that their identification doesn't match their physical body or who they want to be with doesn't necessarily match traditional societal expectations. Do you have any observations about this process of life and growing?
Jane: I think some of that is a case of not opening your eyes and seeing what's right in front of you. Because the spectrum of emotional development and sexual development and mental development, it's all a spectrum.
And we are all somewhere on it. And sometimes moving back and forth. I think we talk about autism as a spectrum, but right. Sexuality, I think, and our development, I think, that's also a spectrum. So I think that you can't really pin somebody down to say, this is where you are, who you are.
I do think that as we worshiped together, I think it's important to acknowledge the different needs that we bring to the place, because they're not all the same. People come in with different understandings, people come in with different needs for their own formation or for their understanding of their role in the world, their relationship with God.
So I think as people of faith, I think it's important to meet people where they are. Yes. And I think that's the affirming piece of it
Barbara: to not make assumptions,
Jane: to not make assumptions.
Barbara: And even though I had Sunday school as a kid, it's still really helpful for me now to have ongoing faith formation and add into this basic outline. When you're 10 years old, you have a different understanding of a Bible story than you do when you're 20 or even 30 or 40 or anything.
Jane: Right. Last week I was one of the participants in a Lutheran program called the festival of homiletics and one of the speakers was Brian McClaren. He was talking about preaching and he said, when you go into a congregation, you've got people who just want to know what's right and what's wrong. You got people who want to know the history, the language behind it, why it was written that way. And then you've got other people who are rejecting everything are going to say, and they're just, I don't have want to have anything to do with it. And then there's another group of people who are open to the movement of God's spirit through all of those different places. And he said somehow or other, the preacher needs to be able to talk to each one of those and define some way to connect. Connection, relationship acknowledging and affirming where you are, whether you are preaching or whether you are teaching in a classroom or whether you're walking down the street, whether you're the boss in some office space.
Those are all the same lesson about reaching people where they are , and finding an affirming way to acknowledge that this person is not in the same place as this person. So Brian was talking about preaching, but I think it's really a life lesson.
Barbara: And people may want to learn more about this topic or any other topic.
And so some people want to read books. Some people want to watch videos or look at websites or just have conversations and inquiring in different ways. We all have different learning styles as well. So do you have any resources, suggestions of where people can go to learn more about anything that we've talked about today?
Jane: I think if you start with a widely known organizations, such as P flag, they will link you to different things. I know on the NPR channels on the PBS channels, they have some excellent programs on how to be affirming of people on that spectrum of gender and sexuality.
Some really good programs about the development of kids who are transgender.
Barbara: And I'm just prayerful in my heart that this message of love can also be heard with love and acceptance, because I feel like it's just fraught that there's so many different opinions and fears.
But I always like to ask can you think of any voices that are missing? Who can we really listen to? Who can we pray to have a better understanding that's on this topic?
Jane: the voices that I think are missing or that third group that Brian was talking about- the ones who have had it with the church and are walking away.
And I think it is the vast majority of humanity that has just gotten fed up with it. I'm an optimistic kind of person. Well, maybe I'm a realist, but I have an optimism about the world. I think that, that the young people today are digging more deeply than we did and are trying really hard to live their own lives.
But at the same time, to not let their lives control or harass someone who's not in the same. One of the things that we were going to talk about was the Camino before this, and I think that one of the saddest things that can happen to someone is to never experience food from other cultures.
You don't have to go to Italy to experience really good Italian food. Now you may not be able to find it on the Gulf coast. There are things like Indian foods, you got to go to New Orleans. You know, there's just not that here, but we've got some pretty good fried catfish. But when you eat together and Jesus, when he had people, he brought them in and they ate together
Barbara: the rejects that people were afraid of and hated.
Jane: that's right. But when you gather around that table and everybody, there's an Ethiopian restaurant in Washington that my daughter takes me to, when I go up there that they put the food in the middle of the table, and you reach in with your finger. I love it. It is so much fun. Maybe not the best COVID practice.
And that was part of what the Camino did for me was sharing. People from all over the world, you don't speak their language. You have no way to communicate, but when someone says “dos cafes con leche” and you sit down at a table and you've got that warm liquid in front of you , there is a connection and that's, to me is just what life is about. It's about making those connections.
Barbara: And I would also urge that we pray for each other and our own discernment and wisdom, but also that we just pray for people's relationship with God. But again, coming from a place of love, it's not my job to pray to fix somebody. I want to pray that we're all in God's hands.
Jane: my favorite prayer of all the prayers and the prayer book is keep watching your Lord with those who work or watch or weep this night and give your angels charge over those who sleep.
Tend the sick, Lord Christ, give rest to the weary, soothe the suffering, pity the afflicted, shield the joyous and all for God's love sake. Amen. That is what I go to bed with. Keep watching.
Barbara: Yes.
Jane: And God does keep watch.
Barbara: Thank you so much, Jane.
Jane: come down and visit.
Resources:
1 John 4:11-12, 18-21
https://reconcilingworks.org/resources/
https://www.nigelpaine.com/uncategorized/the-iona-creed/
https://www.elca.org/Faith/Faith-and-Society/Social-Statements/Human-Sexuality
https://www.episcopalchurch.org/who-we-are/lgbtq/
The Church Cracked Open by Stephanie Spellers