Barbara: Hi everyone- welcome to 40 minutes of faith. My name is Barbara Cox and I host this weekly podcast to explore God's word and our relationship with God.
Today's guest is Stephanie Hittle. I met her in Germany a few years ago. Stephanie has been a military spouse for 11 years. She's from Washington state and has lived in seven States and one country outside the USA. Her family includes six children, three boys and three girls, and they recently moved to New York state Stephanie's faith background is Christian mystic.
She worked in the medical field as a medical assistant and her dreams are to travel the world and become a motivational speaker and author. Stephanie has been writing prayers for many years and they have been a blessing for this podcast since it started in June. Welcome, Stephanie! How are things settling in for all of you in New York state?
Stephanie: Hi, Barbara. Thank you for having me today. Things are going really well. We're finally settling into our own house to make it our own.
Barbara: I bet that's a lot of work, but so glad to have you in the neighborhood.
Stephanie: Yeah. It's nice to be close by you again.
Barbara: Today you have three Bible passages. The first one is from the gospel of John, which is more than halfway through your Bible. Stephanie will read John chapter 15, verses one through five from the new international version.
Stephanie: I am the true vine. And my father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit while every branch that bears fruit, he prunes. So that will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you remain in me as I also remain in you.
No branch can bear fruit by itself. It must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine. You are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit. Apart from me you can do nothing.
Barbara: Stephanie, there is so much powerful material in these verses. Do you happen to have any garden experience, especially with pruning? What's involved?
Stephanie: Actually, yes. Growing up, I helped my grandparents a lot with their garden and as well in our own home. I did do some pruning. And that's when you cut back the stems and buds during the late spring and early winter months, so new ones can grow back and it also helps encourage the plant or a tree to bloom new growth.
Barbara: Interesting. I have moderate gardening experience. So I'm vaguely familiar with the concept, it sounds like you know more about it than I do- it sounds like there's a purpose and a reason for what's done. And we're going to talk a little bit more about that as it relates to the Bible. We like to recommend resources.
And one Bible study that Stephanie and I did together in Germany is "Finding I Am" by Lysa TerKeurst. We will have the details listed on the podcast website, which is 40 minutes of faith.com. We have one of the I am statements in today's passage when Jesus says I am the vine. Stephanie, what does it mean to you that we are branches from this vine?
Stephanie: Well, Jesus calls himself the vine because he gives life to the branches. And as we are the branches to Jesus, it means to me that Jesus is our source of life. He feeds us, cares for us and gives us what we need to live. And when we accept his fruits, we ourselves produce healthier nurture fruits in life.
So he produces goodness for us and in us being his branches,
Barbara: that's a really beautiful image how you described that. Thank you. One of the things that the Bible study author Lysa writes about in this passage is that without Jesus, we tend to selfishly focus on how the quote fruit that we produce brings glory to ourselves.
Stephanie, is there a difference between what the world expects us to produce and what God is looking for in our lives?
Stephanie: I definitely feel there is a difference. The world seems to want to see more producing of money and power and success in terms of owning this or that. And who's more famous.
And it doesn't matter to some, if it's for positive or negative deeds. And at times it seems like society, it doesn't care too much about one's heart and soul. But as far as what God is looking for in our lives, I believe he seeks our true heart and soul fruits.
He's more concerned with our inner beauty and our true selves versus outwardly glam. Not saying that being famous and rich is a poor quality to have, it's just how one uses their gifts and blessings to help others as well.
Barbara: Yeah, that makes sense to me. God doesn't care if we're on the cover of a magazine or if we have a certain amount of money in our bank account or anything like that.
So there is a difference between what the world expects that's people by and large. And maybe we're just talking about Western culture. Maybe we're talking about what we're familiar with. It could be different in other places that we're not as familiar with, but those are some really good examples. I really appreciate that.
Lysa reminds us in this Bible study that we are not the vine. We are running around trying to control our lives. Well, I mean, I try to do that. Maybe you do, probably a lot of people. I don't want to throw everybody under the bus, just myself, but Lysa believes that God wants us to slow down and receive what we are being given.
Jesus says in verse four that we should remain. Stephanie, what is a real-life example of how we can remain with Jesus rather than trying to be the vine ourselves?
Stephanie: Like you said, as difficult it is, we do need to let go of feeling and trying to control every inch and aspect of our lives. We weren't created for that.
And when we do that, it brings on too much pressure and anxieties and disappointments. So some of us can be a bit of a control freak, so to speak. Like I know I can be. And when we're feeling overwhelmed or defeated, we need to take a step back and remember that Jesus is here for us and it is with him and through him that we remain strong. We can't always do it ourselves all the time. Like an example, our family buying a house. Here in New York, it takes six to eight weeks because you have the realtors, the lawyers, and the bankers and all of that stuff involved. And it's a very, very slow process. But our family, we kept being told you have to wait. There's nothing you can do. But my husband and I, we sat down and we prayed fiercely and felt and believed that God was in complete control and he was going to make a way in a quicker way for us. So after my husband made a couple phone calls and we just let go and gave it to God and we ended up closing our house in 30 days.
Barbara: Wow. So remaining could look like being patient. I'm hearing you also say prayer and that maybe we can still make some phone calls while we're remaining in being patient, but that we're not like just trying to hammer the control - and for me that comes from fear. Like if I'm not controlling this, then it's not going to work out, which I know is untrue.
Stephanie: Yeah. We just need to do what you can and then let go and let God do what he does behind the doors.
Barbara: And that sounds kind of scary sometimes, or maybe to some people, maybe to me sometimes. Stephanie, we're not done with this passage in John yet, but there is another story about vines in the Bible.
Actually, there are many stories about vineyards, but the one I have in mind for today is in the book of Isaiah. This is in the Hebrew Bible, also known as the old Testament, right in the middle of your Bible. I will read Isaiah chapter five, verses one to four in the new international version:
“I will sing for the one I love a song about his vineyard. My loved one had a vineyard on a fertile hillside. He dug it up and cleared it of stones and planted it with the choicest vines. He built a Watchtower in it. And cut out a wine press as well. Then he looked for a crop of good grapes, but it yielded only bad fruit. Now you dwellers in Jerusalem and people of Judah judge between me and my vineyard.
What more could have been done for my vineyard than I have done for it. When I looked for good grapes, why did it yield only bad?”
Stephanie, how long does it sometimes take to see the results of things we plant in gardens or on farms?
Stephanie: Well, it always depends on what you're planting. Some items take longer than others to grow in order to produce a better quality. Wild flowers take a few short weeks while others such as grapes take years for the maturing.
Barbara: I actually didn't know that. So that makes this story actually even more interesting because it sounds like it took a few years to get all this stuff done where I don't know how long it takes to build a vineyard and then wait for the grapes.
Stephanie: Yeah, it can take about five seasons from what I've been told.
Barbara: Wow. Maybe we're more used to seeing kind of seasonal stuff like corn. I think it grows up in less than a year and you harvest it and it's gone and that's it. So this is a really long-term investment with these grapes here.
Stephanie: Yes.
Barbara: Interesting. Another resource that I've used for many years is called the Serendipity Bible for groups.
One of the reasons I really like this Bible is that there are discussion questions in the margins, and you can have a Bible study about any passage based on the questions that are right there. For example, regarding this story in Isaiah, the serendipity Bible for groups asks us this question. When you start a project such as a term paper or remodeling a house with high hopes, but it fails repeatedly.
What do you do? Give up, try again, wait until next year? And why? Stephanie, how about those larger projects that are just going nowhere in your life, which hopefully you don't have any, I guess we all probably do?
Stephanie: well, we have a choice because God gave us free will so we can either allow it to defeat us or we can allow God to defeat it for us.
And when things fail, it doesn't mean that we failed or are failures. To me, it means there's a better way for us, even when we feel like giving up and fall into allowing the enemy to speak negativity to our minds, we just need to take a step back and reevaluate, maybe seek out help from spirit, our spiritual brothers and sisters, classmates, and other mentors.
We don't always see what's in front of us. We don't always look at all the angles and things don't always happen on our timeline. They happen on God's and his timing is always perfect, even if we're impatient and don't agree with that. And the end it's always works out and there's always a learning opportunity in any of our challenges.
Barbara: I like that you're suggesting that there could be a new direction. Like there could just be a turn when we don't think there's supposed to be a turn. And then we're kind of confused and like, what's happening. This is a failure, but it's not a failure.
Stephanie: I don't really look at failure as failure per se. I always, I feel that God always has a learning opportunity for us. Even if we have to take a detour
Barbara: I like that. And one of my favorite quotes that I heard in a sermon actually in Germany in one of the American military chapels is, the preacher said that we want a microwave god. And I thought, yup.
Stephanie: Yup. We sure do.
Barbara: And God's not a microwave God. Now, God can move with lightening speed. No doubt about it. But in our day to day lives, we might be thinking, hello, what's going on? Hang on. And it could be a new direction. It could be a detour. And I also really like what you said about negativity that gets planted in our minds.
Can you say a little bit more about how we might see things as failures because of just negative messages that we're processing- how can we deal with that?
Stephanie: Well, like with a term paper, if you get a grade that you don't like, then of course you start believing the lies. I'm stupid. I didn't do good enough.
I can't succeed. But that's the enemy telling you that. You might have to put more studying into it. You just didn't comprehend what it was. You can always make up for that later on and God will show you and lead you that way.
Barbara: Yes- in fact, for my master's thesis, I was told to send it to the writing center. And I was kinda surprised because generally I think I'm an okay writer, but they said, no, no, we say that to everyone, which I'm assuming is true.
Maybe they don't. But anyway, it was probably meant to make me feel a little bit better. And I got fantastic advice from the writing center, just minute little things that I had no idea. I got some great ideas for clarification and just for more accuracy. So it did not in any way mean that getting sent to the writing center means you're a failure.
Stephanie: It was another learning opportunity.
Barbara: Yes, exactly. Thank you. Stephanie, there's one really important Lutheran concept that I keep bringing up because both of the passages we're talking about today have a lot of law in them. By this I mean that we humans are pretty good at not meeting God's expectations.
We are sinners and we cannot produce to perfection. The grapes we produce are sour sometimes, or even much of the time. We can't keep all the rules and because of that, it's impossible for us to earn our salvation. Instead, what a relief it is to know that salvation is a free gift.
So if that's true, then why would we want to bother with trying to produce good fruit?
Stephanie: Well, salvation is a free gift. However, it's a free gift to those who accept it whole-heartedly. And it's not holy to have the thought process oh, it doesn't matter if I break this law or a rule because I'm already forgiven.
That's not a heart that God seeks. God wants a heart full of good fruits, not decayed fruits. And he wants those who want him with true sincerity. We're humans and no one's perfect. We all make mistakes and errors. It's more of did we do this or that with an honest intention or did we do this or that because we weren't in line with Jesus and we got a little lost? If we come back to our shepherd and he sees and feels our sorrow and we admit our wrongs, he welcomes us right back and he graces us. Our punishment for ourselves is that we went through the wandered dry desert.
Barbara: Yes. I'm so glad you said that because even though we're talking about grapes, I really like that metaphor of we can stray.
We can wander around and then we're always welcomed back, no matter how far we wandered or how kind of bad fruit to go back to the original metaphor that we produced. There's no fruit that God can't love or that Jesus won't accept back into the fold.
Stephanie: No, he'll always restore us.
Barbara: So yes, salvation is a free gift and yes, we still seek to care for our neighbor and do the right thing in that kind of thing example of producing good fruit. And we have another question about that from the serendipity Bible for groups, which is what are some fruits people use today to evaluate how spiritual a person is?
How do these compare with what God looks for in a growing church? Thankfully, this Bible also gives us a hint at one possible answer, which is found in the book of Galatians chapter five. Galatians is a very small book almost at the end of your Bible. Stephanie will read verses 22 to 24 from the message,
Stephanie: but what happens when we live God's way? He brings gifts into our lives, much the same way the fruit appears in an orchard. Things like affection for others.
Exuberance about life, serenity. We develop a willingness to stick with things, a sense of compassion in the heart and a conviction that is a basic holiness permeates things. And people we find ourselves involved in loyal commitments, not needing to force our ways in life, able to marshal and direct our energies wisely. Legalism is helpless in bringing things about. It only gets in the way among those who belong to Christ. Everything connected with getting our own way and of mindlessly responding to what everyone else calls necessities is killed off for good, crucified.
Barbara: Stephanie, how did these verses compare with some “fruits” people use today to evaluate how spiritual a person is?
Stephanie: it seems as though people often give fake fruit versus fruit that is pure. They do things out of feeling obligated or for show. And the more one gives, the more you will be liked or praised. People seek out approval of others instead of the approval of the Holy spirit. It's in the quiet giving that we receive the true blessings and God sees our true hearts. We don't need to feed pride. We need to feed the soul. And in Matthew 6, he mentions about giving in the quiet and not on the streets. Even though we want to be liked as a person, we should only share our fruits that we're called to bring forward and people will see who we are because God's light will shine out of us.
Barbara: Yeah. Thank you so much for mentioning that new Testament passage, because that's exactly what came to my mind when you were saying it. And I was kind of scrambling like, Oh, I can't remember exactly where it is. Yes. We're called to give quietly and you know, sometimes people want to recognize that. And so I'm not going to say, Oh, you can never be recognized, but there's a difference between giving quietly and maybe anonymously because the people who receive know.
So are we doing it for show? Exactly like you said. That's a good point. And the, the Bible passage in Galatians give some really nice examples about affection for others and just how eventually it kind of goes into your whole body and your soul and your mind that we are not forcing our way in life.
And again, that goes back to the control. That's how I'm reading that and that legalism is helpless in bringing anything about, but that's something also, that's easy for me to judge other people very easy to judge myself too, but who's the ultimate judge?
Stephanie: God is.
Barbara: Yeah, but people sure do judge each other.
Stephanie: They definitely do. It's kind of a hard trap to get out of sometimes.
Barbara: Yup. And you talked about doing things for show, which to me that's judging a book by its cover because we never know what's in someone's heart based on what they look like on the outside. It could be totally the opposite of how you look versus what's inside in both directions.
Stephanie: Yeah, absolutely.
Barbara: I try to, do my best and, take a shower and put on clean clothes and stuff like that, but I know that in some faith communities you're really expected to dress up and be on your Sunday best. And I don't have firsthand experience with that. I'm not sure if you do, but I've heard about it that, the expectation is you put your best foot forward and you don't tell people your problems in church, which is, I think the one place where it would be really great to get prayers for your problems, but sometimes people don't want anybody to know,
Stephanie: could just look on the outside and think, well, she's smiling. She's happy. She's dressed nice. Her life's perfect, so to speak.
Barbara: Yep. Maybe easy for us to be jealous too, but we have no idea. Cause there may have been days when we were smiling and things were not perfect for sure. One optional question for consideration comes from my Lutheran study Bible. What kind of vineyard describes your life?
Stephanie, do we have different spiritual seasons in our lives that might change how our metaphorical vineyards look like?
Stephanie: Absolutely. I think we do. We all go through different seasons and it helps us mature and grow more fruitful. Some seasons may seem really dry and bare where we go through a lot more pruning than what we normally do in other seasons.
But God does this to prepare us for the abundance of blooms that are coming into our own fruition. It's not easy. And we may experience more thirst. And we don't feel full, but in time we turned to the sun as in the sunshine and then in the son as in the Son of God for our nourishment in light. And as we do this, our vineyards will be more abundant and we can share our fruit with others.
Barbara: I don't think that the expectation is that we ourselves, you know, symbolically with this vineyard, that everything is always blooming and abundant. Like you said, that even in nature, there's seasons when things look dead on the outside. We're in fall right now in North America and some plants are fading and that that's okay, that that's a part of the circle of life. Maybe there's other parts of the world where things are always lush just due to the weather, but around here, that kind of makes me think of that example, that there could be times in our lives when we're maybe limping along spiritually or thirsty, like you said, physically thirsty and spiritually thirsty, and then we're seeking out that vine.
That source, that spiritual source. And I like how you mentioned also mentors, before, when you were talking about maybe thinking about ourselves as failures, you know, who are we talking to? Who are we listening to? We're not always going to get just the stroking of Oh, you're so wonderful. I mean, that would be nice, but that's just fake, too. Where can we find spiritual mentors that will say, you know, there's another season coming?
This is a really hard season right now. And it might feel like it's lasting forever. I don't know if you have any thoughts on mentors. Cause sometimes it seems to me like it's kind of hard to find mentors in person, but maybe that's just me.
Stephanie: It can definitely be challenging, but now you can go to your local church and there's neighbors and like perfect strangers you can run into and having an amazing conversation with, and they shared the word of God with you or an experience.
And it's just like mind blowing. And next thing you know, you're like family and best friends. God will put the right people on the right path at the right time. I firmly believe that.
Barbara: Yes, that's wonderful. So spiritual mentors don't have to be people who have a lot of theological training. I mean, even Bible study teachers, I think when I read books or watch videos, even though I have never met them in person, but I love what you said, that it could just be a random stranger and you meet them and there's a connection and people can speak wisdom to us, even if they're relatively strangers. That's great. Thank you. So now we're back to the first passage in the gospel of John.
Let's talk about pruning in our lives. I suspect that pruning is uncomfortable at best and really painful sometimes. Stephanie, what might God see as needing pruning in our lives? And why does this pruning happen?
Stephanie: Oh, perhaps God will prune our relationships that aren't healthy or suitable for us, whether that's a friendship or romantic partnership, a pruning with a job that isn't allowing our branches to grow any further, or some sort of loss, we have to sometimes lose things in order to find things. And God's making room and making room for a renewal. It can be very difficult and uncomfortable, and we might experience some grief, but we won't be left empty and naked. He will fill us up again and keep us clothed with his richness and glory.
Barbara: Yes. I really like how you said that God is making room because it seems to me like we can fill up our lives just physically with stuff.
And then also emotionally, or just being busy all the time and running around. And maybe some of that has slowed down yeah with the pandemic, but still, how do we make space for something new in our lives? And maybe letting go of something isn't tons of fun. I took a life coach training course from Martha Beck.
And one of the things that she said was who do you have to thank for pushing you off the wrong path? And so for me, the answer is God, even if it was a person who did something that changed my path, that it was God, to make room, put me on a different path.
Stephanie: It's like cleaning house, deep cleaning the house.
Barbara: Yes. And sometimes people get mad too, in our lives, if we're going in a direction that isn't beneficial to someone else. So even, you know, if we want to spend time at church and someone else's like, I don't like how you're spending so much time at church or you're hanging out with all those church people or something like that, that it could be having different relationships, new relationships.
Maybe that's not the best example, but that's just the one that came to my mind.
Stephanie: cause they're not personally ready for that and they don't understand it. So they're going to push that away because it's unknown and uncomfortable for them.
Barbara: making a health decision- I'm going to do less of this and do more of this for my own health.
Even if it's physical health or spiritual health, how can we support and encourage each other when it comes to spiritual or physical pruning?
Stephanie: I think letting the person or persons know that you're there for them and share any experiences that may relate to their challenges, but also sharing God's sharp yet gentle tool, which is his word and his promises with them.
Barbara: Oh, I'm so glad you said promises because this could be a really awkward topic where you don't know - I don't have cancer, but I'm just thinking someone might say, why do I have cancer? Is God pruning me here? And there are other stories of people's faith journeys during medical challenges.
And that you said that there's also a promise and the promise is not eternal life on earth with good health. And I don't mean that sarcastically at all, but there's a higher promise of a relationship with God that continues beyond earth.
Stephanie: Yes.
Barbara: Stephanie, I just want to check in with you on the concept that while we can't earn our way into heaven by producing great fruit all of the time, we have a free gift of salvation, and we want to love our neighbor according to God's will. What's the point in judging other people for words or actions that we think is bad fruit?
What about when people say things to or about us when it comes to our own words or actions?
Stephanie: Well, I don't feel we should judge per se, but I think we should help out our brothers and sisters holding themselves accountable with situations that go against their own beliefs or that aren't holy. We all need a positive support system again, mentors, and it's not to judge them, it's to help them.
And if we do it in loving ways and not in a way you're saying, I know what's better for you. However, there are ungodly people out there in the world and we need to be aware and acknowledge they aren't good fruits. Some fruits unfortunately are decayed, but when it comes with things that are. Pointed out, that we've done ourselves, it's uncomfortable and we may feel defensive.
We don't like to be wrong. We don't like the feeling of being ashamed and we don't want to offend or hurt anyone. Yet, it helps us correct our behavior or at least helps us to reevaluate ourselves so our fruit stays vital.
Barbara: Yeah. That's a great point. I sure don't like it when someone points out something to me and hopefully they're in alignment with this whole pruning that we're talking about spiritually from God.
It could be that they're just coming from a wrong direction, like you said, and that we can also support each other and encourage each other to do the right thing. But ultimately the pruning is up to God. Yes. Is there anything else that you want to talk about on this topic of pruning Stephanie?
Stephanie: Not that I can think of right at the moment.
Barbara: Great. Thank you so much for your time. This has been really interesting. I learned some new things about gardening and I'm really glad we had a chance to talk about God's pruning in our lives and abiding and remaining.
Stephanie: I really enjoyed it too. It's a very interesting topic.
Barbara: Great. We'll have to do it again soon.
Stephanie: Of course.
Resources:
John 15:1-5
Isaiah 5:1-4
Galatians 5:22-24
Matthew 6
"Finding I Am" by Lysa TerKeurst
Serendipity Bible for Groups
Lutheran Study Bible
Stephanie writes powerful and beautiful prayers