Gloom with Carol

Barbara: Hi, everyone. Welcome to 40 minutes of faith. Today's topic is gloom and stress, and our guest is Carol Espique. I met Carol in Germany through the military chapel. Carol grew up in a Christian home and got married at 21. After seven years, they divorced. And during that time she was diagnosed with anxiety. It was scary, but Carol was very proactive about her mental health.

She was trying to find herself and decided to focus on God before she went into another relationship. Carol never pictured herself moving, let alone marrying someone in the military. And now she's been a military spouse for six years. Carol and her husband want to put God first and follow God's will as is common.

For many military families, they moved to Georgia had a child and the air force sent Carol's husband on a deployment. They moved to Germany three years ago and are currently in North Carolina. Carol was taking online classes in Germany towards a social work degree. She wants to encourage others and talk about how we can get help or support in new seasons of life.

It's okay to ask for help. Carol, how are things in North Carolina this summer?

Carol: it's getting hot, so we just stay inside and stay in the air conditioner. But we did venture out this weekend and went to the pool here at our apartment. And this really enjoyed spending time, just me and my husband and our son.

We. Hardly had that time to do with schoolwork and moving in and therapies for Nolan. So it was just nice to have a couple hours to just focus on us.

Barbara: Great. That sounds really nice. Our Bible passage today is in the book of Amos, which is near the middle of your Bible, between the book of Daniel and the new Testament.

Amos 5:18-24 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

18 Alas for you who desire the day of the Lord!
    Why do you want the day of the Lord?
It is darkness, not light;
19     as if someone fled from a lion,
    and was met by a bear;
or went into the house and rested a hand against the wall,
    and was bitten by a snake.
20 Is not the day of the Lord darkness, not light,
    and gloom with no brightness in it?

21 I hate, I despise your festivals,
    and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies.
22 Even though you offer me your burnt offerings and grain offerings,
    I will not accept them;
and the offerings of well-being of your fatted animals
    I will not look upon.
23 Take away from me the noise of your songs;
    I will not listen to the melody of your harps.
24 But let justice roll down like waters,
    and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.

Carol, this might sound a little gloomy and depressing, but let's unpack it a little bit. Do we have seasons of gloom in our lives that could be depression and or anxiety?

Carol: I definitely think so, in deployments or during PCS season, which is “permanent change the station.” You can ask any military spouse and if your spouse is on deployment, the first thing is things just start breaking in the house. my friend, her husband's gone for first week. her dishwasher stopped working. It's just crazy. It does teach you to trust in God.

luckily being in the military, you just have such a great support system. you don't have to wait around for people- everyone's in the same position and so open to accepting you. And there are a lot of, Hey, my husband can mow your yard. That's no problem.

Your dishwasher broke. We know someone. We've just been so blessed that there's been so many people that God's put in our lives that have always been there. I've never really felt alone.

Barbara: That's one benefit to being a military family. And of course there's many, but also the challenges like you mentioned, and everybody's kind of in the same boat.

So you don't mind getting to know each other a little quicker, maybe the normal, cause you don't have like two years to wait around and get to know each other. Cause by then it's almost time to get ready to move on to the next place. That's a really a good example and a good resource. have you ever felt gloomy or separated from God?

Carol: I would say probably before I met my husband, I was definitely experiencing that. I think I was trying to find my path back to him, but also trying to figure out who I was. I grew up in a small town, so I always felt like I was Susan and Jerry’s daughter or Jennifer’s sister, I never just kind of had who I was.

And until you know who you are, it's really hard to establish relationships with anyone else. And I think that's the same with even a relationship with God. Like you have to kind of know who you are so that you can trust other people

I go into a very small church, Southern Baptist in a small town and grew up there and it fit me for a little while, but you go through seasons and. You change and it's not good or bad, it's just life.

I decided that it was time for me to define churches that I felt like fit more me. we've tried some pretty extreme churches with a alive band where I felt like I was at a concert. And that wasn't really what I was looking for.

I finally did end up returning to my parents. And then once Edmond and I started dating, he had found a church he was established in and that had couples our age. So it was nice to start going with him.

I feel like during that time, God was just using that time for me to open my eyes. I guess small towns are good for people, but I think maybe I needed something a little more.

I feel like during that time I was able to experience other churches or just. Things more so than a small town. So that was good. I think it was meeting some of what I was missing in my life.

Barbara: Yeah. And you ended up all the way across the ocean on this military assignment in Germany, and now you're back and I'm pretty sure Carol, that I know you well enough.

If I can just double check this. When you said it was really nice that there were other couples of your age in this other church, you're not there just looking for social stuff and fun, but even when you're in a Bible study , we can learn from our elders by all means. So having full respect, but then sometimes it's just nice to be on a faith walk with folks who were sort of in our same life stage, does that sound like it's fair to say?

Carol: I would definitely say that. I was probably the only person at my church who was about my age and everybody was either married and had kids. Or like in college, I was kind of in this, in between. I would help my parents with the senior adult Christmas party. I was just looking for a connection, more my peers.

Barbara: Now some parts of our passage in Amos today sound a little scary and I'm wondering how can we approach times that feel like we're running from a bear. Then we meet a lion and then we get bitten by a snake. And I hope all that's metaphorically, that doesn't happen with. Real life too often, but kind of when our souls might be facing some scary stuff.

Carol: yes. maybe some people feel like 2020 may be like this, you get through one thing and there's something else for you to face- it really can beat you down. But, I know in my head I had made a comment and I like immediately regretted even thinking that Oh, this is end times. I thought God was supposed to rapture Christians up and not be feeling all this. And then I immediately realized that, you know, what.

My husband still has his job. We still get our paycheck. Every other week. We have food in our pantry. None of us are sick. We have access to the doctor and like really Carol, like just shut your mouth because you have it really good. I feel like God is just like, let's see what else is going on. Let's not focus on poor you, you're first world problems, but like, Hey, I'm speaking to you. So I feel like he has used this time and, I'm just kind of buckled in and hoping for the best at this.

Barbara: What does that listening sometimes look like for you? I know you said be still a few minutes ago.

Carol: Yeah. I don't think we can ever be done going personally. So, as you mentioned, I'm going to school. when I first started into the program for social work, I really didn't know where I was going with it. And there have been incidences where I have been educated in situations to lead me to what I would like to focus on. So, in a way he is still working on me, but he's also using outside influences for me to see I think I have a heart and passion for.

Barbara: Great. So some of it might come from our own spiritual seeking discernment, and then we can observe kind of what's going on in the world and try to put it together.

You had mentioned going to school. Everybody has a different situation in high school and finishing up with high school and starting a family and working. So how did you end up saying, I'm going to really just give this a try. It might be hard. I might have some challenges, but I really want to go back to school.

Carol: I can honestly say that God blessed me with an amazing husband who supports me. And, it's definitely harder to get jobs overseas as you know, so Nolan was getting ready to go into preschool. My husband's been in school and he was like, well, maybe it's time for you to look at school.

And honestly, I had no idea what I was going to go for. I have an associate’s degree in early childhood development and I'd worked in the classroom and I had tried to go back for my four year degree, but it was not speaking to me at all. I really liked to help people. I definitely had some questions about politics and just things in the world.

And I guess I just started looking back on things that I was raised on- things that I feel like people had different views on from what I did. And either I need to be more open minded or I need to look at the Bible and see what it says to make sure that these things that I'm feeling I want to support line up with the Bible. So first it just kind of started with looking at social programs itself because my husband grew up with out of father. So his idea of a social program was totally different than mine. Honestly, mine was, kind of people who just chose not to work and were lazy.

And my husband's like, well, what about the people who are trying? And his mom is a single mom. She has three boys She was an amazing woman- she raised three sons to be awesome fathers, great husbands. And she always made sure that her parents were around and her brother and his wife around to help shape these boys.

So that was amazing. They grew up on social programs because their mom works, but she has three boys and they lived in Florida and you're trying to catch up, but in situations like that, obviously you're probably not going to catch up on like a minimum wage job. And these things are playing a part in my mind.

I'm like, you know, wait a minute. There are people out there who are trying, but it's not their fault. So the more I looked I was just like, Oh, this class sounds really interesting. And it kind of all ended up under the program Social work, definitely not something I had on my radar at all. I'm taking classes that the changes in the world are happening right now. I mean, you were seeing so many oppressors that's group and they've always been there.

They've always been there. It's like you said, that it was in the Bible. They were there in the Bible. we need to do something. I feel like I'm important again, or that I'm something besides a mom or a military spouse. It's definitely given me something that fits my own. And I love that. I've really missed that. And education is something that no one can ever take from you.

So there's always something to learn. I was with all the changes going on and me questioning how I grew up, as a conservative Republican, most people are not really towards Social programs. I kind of always felt like it was bad or it's like a bad use of money. I was just kind of really questioning everything. I was lucky to be able to go to a Christian college and that definitely helps, relate worldly views back to the Bible or what's going on.

and if you think about it, Jesus was kind of a social worker. He was always hanging out with the crowd nobody really wanted, but those are the people who needed him. And there are so many people in the world. Who need us. I've just learned about all the programs where there's just gaps and people are just falling into them.

You think of kids who are in foster care and then they turn 18 and they age out and maybe they've just been bounced around and then you're out of our hands now, what do they do? they may not have had a good education. They may find themselves homeless and it's not the system's problem anymore.

Barbara: yeah, that's heartbreaking. There are some States that have programs in place, but that comes down to money also- are the people in that state willing to have money go to support say, 18 year olds who are transitioning out of foster care because they may have learned how to budget their own money, but nobody can afford their own apartment?

Even the example you gave of your mother-in-law, you know, working, raising kids. Obviously that's not the exact same thing, but if you want to go to school and you're trying to do your homework and hold a job so that you can pay your rent, I don't mind paying a little bit more taxes if it means that these kids can get a little extra help as they're transitioning.

Carol: Exactly. I was really worried about that, being your first trimester and the clinic on base also offered a program for a home nurse to come to my house every other week. and, I think she may have been part of the new parent support program

Barbara: in Germany. It's still around.

Carol: so this was in Georgia at an air force base and, she would come out and, I want to say that it seemed like more of her caseload where probably like younger, airmen and their wives who struggle financially, or, she said that she knew that some families only have like one car. So if the spouse was at work, I mean, the other spouse was at home all day and really couldn't go anywhere. it helped me out so much. And I just remember what, what a blessing it was to have her. She was like an angel sent, cause like, I needed that during that time, but I did suffer from postpartum after I had Nolan. she understood, she didn't just think I was losing it.

Barbara: That's nice. It sounds like you didn't feel judged, but you did feel supported. A big shout out to the air force, new parents support program. I know the army has something similar. And then there's also, non-military community organizations, kind of depends on where you live, but I'm so grateful Carol, that you are willing to be open and honest and maybe vulnerable because we sometimes think, well, depending on where you live or how you grew up, at least I was taught be strong, suck it up, figure it out. You'll be okay. But there's real benefits to having other people around. And whether it's a professional, like a nurse, or there's a group called mops, mothers of preschoolers, it's kind of like a peer group, that sometimes other people can be a wonderful resource to help us through our tough times. Didn't you end up volunteering to be in the leadership of mops for a while?

Carol: I had heard about the mops group in Georgia- I'm one of those people, I need connections. I need friends. As soon as we found that we were moving to Germany, I'm all over like Stuttgart page looking. luckily we were so blessed that my cousins were stationed in super with us. Wow. So we have family as soon as we got there, which was amazing.

I was got in touch with the coordinator and she's like, well, sometimes there are limited spaces available. So, she said that if you were a table leader or a coordinator, then you automatically, so he got in, so I'm like, shoot signed me up. I'll be the head of something. No problem. If that guarantees that I'm going to make some friends.

Barbara: I know some of the rooms were smaller and they could only have a certain number of kids.

Carol: So, I became a table leader. I really didn't know what it was. I had heard other people talk about it. And that was definitely a saving grace. When I got to Germany, the ladies. There were great. I made friends. And since I was on the steer team, I got to go to extra meetings, which was nice. Cause that was basically a mommy play date where we let the kids play and we would discuss what, we're going to talk about our next meeting, but it was also a little for us, for us to complain or just adult interaction.

And then the coordinator ended up moving back to the States. So me and another girl decided we would be the coordinators and we enjoyed it. And, we try to reach out to some of our community resources is because so many of the spouses don't know what's going on on base. We take care of the family- maybe people think it sounds a little 50th or whatever, but I think I've become so much stronger and so much more independent since becoming a military spouse.

My son was diagnosed with autism. So I was kind of introduced to some of the therapies and services that are offered to families on base. And if you feel like your child has any kind of delay or you're just like, well, from a discounting, the myths, you can top them without having to get a referral from your BCM, which is very important with Tri-Care. So you can go to them and they'll come out to your house and do like a little screen for your child.

Barbara: it's called early intervention in some States and they do exactly what you said, the screenings and then provide different kinds of supports. Was that an emotional process for you and your husband to think about, do we need to find out if there's a diagnosis here in this situation?

Carol: I had worked in preschool previously. I'm definitely not an expert, but as a mom, we do always think of worst case scenarios, tell me it wasn't like it had never ran through my mind. I'm like, okay, we'll do the screening process. And, luckily we had a great PCM for Nolan who kind of caught things early. when we first moved there to Germany, Nolan was a couple of months short from being two. And our doctors noticed some eye contact issues. So then, we go back at two and a half and he's kinda making some notes and then it's three. He's like, I think it's time for you to see a specialist, but there wasn't one there.

So we had to go to Landstuhl [Regional Medical Center]. I didn't particularly care for the specialists- not that I'm not saying he didn't know how to do his job, but what I guess I was expecting for him to do spend more time with Nolan and talk to Nolan and play with him. He didn't really do. He kind of looked more of a, some paperwork and ask some questions. And I felt like I really wish you'd spend more time with Nolan because obviously my answers were different than Edmond's answers on this paperwork we had to fill out. I spend more time with Nolan and I felt like even if he didn't do those things, he definitely had the capabilities to do those things that were listed on that paper. And then he said Nolan did not have autism. Okay. But he recommended early preschool for Nolan and for us to go ahead and get into, speech therapy and OT.

Once again, the stuff went to our doctor in Germany and he wrote everything out for the max, like, 50. So they were really quick on early intervention, which was good. I know, even in the States, people are missing it and they're getting those late diagnosis.

And by then those little times that their little brains are just like sponging everything up. They miss that. so, we started all that and then six months later I'm like, Oh, we should probably make an appointment with a developmental specialist, it's been six months, so we're still doing good. See if we see progress, but of course, military community, your developmental specialist that you sell six months ago is no longer there. And, she is like, your son has autism and he should have been diagnosed with it back in February.

autism is, isn’t something you develop, you have it when you're born. So if I just didn't have it six months ago, I wasn't expecting him to develop it in six months.

Barbara: Yeah. Some kids have more vocabulary in speech and then they regress a little bit, but that does not sound like it's what you had observed.

Carol: so we definitely had some times of sadness. there's also times of blame- you’re like, maybe we should've done this or if he was on a stricter schedule or, then I watch too much TV or just did anything that I guess you're just trying to really find a period cause no one really wants the comma. They don't want it to keep going. You want an answer and there just really wasn't one. so once we got that, then he qualified for ABA therapy, which is applied behavior analysis. And there's not like Asperger's and autism spectrum disorder- it's either a level one level two or a level three.

Barbara: So they've changed a little bit, the names, how they're identifying

Carol: Nolan was diagnosed with ASD level one. So autism spectrum disorder level one, which means high functioning and, the doctor says, it just made me this personalities a little quirky. we could not get the ABA therapy covered by Tri-Care until he had the diagnosis. So I've also learned so much through that. That, even as kids are borderline, sometimes they may go ahead and give that diagnosis just so they can go ahead and start those early services to get in start. Maybe improving the behaviors,

Barbara: or even seeing what works- ABA is known to be a helpful treatment for lots of kids. you kind of hate to play the game with the insurance companies, but maybe this is a great example of a time when a diagnosis is not the worst thing, if it gets to access to services.

Carol: It's exactly right. Because, without the diagnosis, he would not be getting the services. He's getting the preschool programs that are offered by the state, we would like for Nolan to go to like, a city school. And, having an IEP is not the worst thing for us to get him in the school.

Barbara: I'm not suggesting that people should lie and definitely not you folks, but even something like an independent education plan means this kid needs some extra help. And this is the reason why, and these are the specific measures that are going to be taken to help this particular child. So even for adults, we were talking a little earlier about maybe depression and anxiety, that there's ways to get help, even if you don't have a diagnosis, but then there's additional ways of getting help if you do.

Carol: a lot of times children with autism are labeled with like bad behaviors. And my son is actually one of the most passive people you'll ever meet. He's actually. Never really even throwing a tantrum. So are people going to be like, Oh, I don't want that kid? Is he going to be labeled as a bad kid because of what's listed in his record? And even after preschool, if we want to put him in a mainstream classroom or, you know, quotation marks, normal classroom. Are people gonna be like, Oh, well he's got autism… We don't think he can function there when Nolan is, very bright. Cause he can memorize things. So like, you know how to spell our names. He can spell his name. He can spell toy because he loves the movie toy story. And now he's really into math. So you can do like math problems and I'm like four year old knows how to do math. Right.

Barbara: I can see that there would be a fear then of that label of that diagnosis. So not to be talking out of both sides of our mouth here, but there's really pros and cons to this whole process. And I'm wondering if you been able to meet other parents or talk with other families that might have a similar situation?

Carol: over the summer I was taking a class and we had to meet online and I met two ladies from Liberty, which is another reason you should go back to school if you have the opportunity- you make new friends. I was worried. I'm like, Oh, am I going to be with a bunch of 18, 19 year olds? Like, they're gonna be like, Oh, she's old. I have met two women and we all have children with autism. And, my friend that I've met here, her oldest son just got diagnosed with it. And he had like the sweetest answer. He's like, Oh good, I can go through this with my brother and know and help him.

He's probably fifth and sixth grade. The oldest one, the youngest one, I think as a little more severe. So he's had the diagnosis already, so it's great to talk to her. before I got here, I was able to start finding out who's got where's the good speech therapist. Where's my ABA therapist. I was already reaching for those resources, resources are so important, you know, definitely educate yourself.

And then, the lady I met through my summer class, her son is the same age as Nolan, but they are just now going through the IEP process, the individual education plan and. She's like, this is so stressful. She's like they are testing him all the time and it is it's stressful and it stinks. Some people are like, Oh, well your kid can't do this. Can't do this, can't do this, can't do this. And you're making these goals and it sounds so awful, but it's going to help in the long run. And it is a long process. Like, I mean, buying a house, buying a car, I mean, things aren't short processes. And so basically you're making almost like an instruction manual for the next teacher or therapist who's going to be working with your child. It's a document. He needs the services.

Barbara: Yeah. We'd like to think of social work as a strength based kind of philosophy or even faith, you know, is there's good in the world and yeah, there's bad also. I don't want any parent to feel like they're getting hit over the head when they're like, well, your kid can't do this. Your kid can't do that. But if it's written down, then you can also see progress and are the treatments being effective. And I don't know if every state has this, but where I used to live in Massachusetts, the rule was to have a least restrictive environment. Try that first. And then if that doesn't work, then have more supports available. So when you were talking about, can you do the mainstream classroom? there's still some time before that happens, but, let's see. Can that work?

Carol: I was just telling the mom- you just hang in there. You need support, prayer, I'm here. it's just nice to know that they're going through the same thing as you. we discussed mops earlier and it's great to know that there's other military spouses or military moms who were, with kids overseas, so we could get together and discuss that, Hey, it stinks that our husbands aren’t home for dinner or, you know, they're gone for a week.

So, support groups are amazing. I think we have honestly been so blessed that everywhere we have been the people there to welcome us with open arms and offer support.

Barbara: it's a two way street, because you have this other mom that you had mentioned, her child is older than your child, so you might be able to learn things from her, but then this other woman is going through a process that you may have already been through some aspects of that process. So you might be able to share some support and wisdom with that person. the last question that I have for you, Carol, I'm wondering the verse talks about justice. What does justice look like for you at this time of your life?

Carol: justice is obviously getting treated fairly, but I don't think there is your life being perfect. I don't think that's the way it was intended, but I think at least for it to be having the right tools to be able to deal with the problems or giants that we're facing.

Barbara: So maybe having access to some things that you need. And then also I want to give you kudos because I think it takes courage to reach out and to say, yeah, this might be a help to me. Like maybe some people would say, no, I don't want a nurse coming to my house. and that's okay. That's your right. But it sounds like it was wonderful for you or, picking up the phone to make that appointment for your son to, to see if there's a diagnosis or not. I suspect that that took a lot of, mental and emotional energy to make those happen. I suspect that there's a shortage of services for some people in some areas. And you had a little bit of experience with that, in the military setting, but I also would pray that we can advocate for each other in terms of accessibility of services. Are there enough providers? Are there enough programs, like you had mentioned earlier to provide for the needs of the people in that area?

Carol: there are some people who make too much money to apply for Medicaid, but you know, can't really afford like insurance and like a private sector. I've just learned that there's quite a few gaps in the social programs. I kinda just know like just the tip of it, but I definitely would like to be more educated in that so that hopefully we can figure out something because those are people that kind of get overlooked, I guess. Cause they're not poor, but they're not. You know, rich or

Barbara: just the in between, and health insurance is really expensive.

Carol: I honestly haven't had to think about it since I married Edmond who's in the military, but I guess when I started to feel bad for myself, I kind of have to snap out of it and just be like, no, you have a good, you're good. You need to think about other people. So that's something I do try to do is whenever I think my life is just going into a hole, I just try to remember that it could always be worse. Most people who do have it worse than me and not that makes me feel better, but it just reminds me reality check that, you know, just because like my phone battery died, that's not the end of the world.

There's definitely worse things. Or, my kid got chocolate ice cream on the couch, you know, I'm thankful I have a couch. I'm thankful I have a child. I'm thankful we had ice cream together. Oh yeah.

Barbara: That's such a nice way of saying it. is there anything else that's on your heart today, Carol, about any of the topics that we've talked about?

Carol: I just want to say that, if you are experiencing a season that just seems like a rainy season, don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask as support groups or reach out to your primary care physician. I mean, there's a lot of resources out there and just to remember, sometimes it was rainy seasons bring, sunshine and they make us stronger.

We can learn from them. It's. We can't just have sunny weather all the time and that's kind of the way there's a better life. Like it just can't always be good or we'll never really grow or appreciate these things. So it's definitely, some of those seasons seems really long and

Barbara: like just, they're never going to end and you don't have a timeline on everything, but I'm so glad you said that there's people, there's groups, there's also phone numbers, there's websites, there's books, just depending on your style of maybe learning about different situations. And I'm hearing you encourage people to reach out.

Carol: Yeah. I have the Bible app on my phone. There's some little plans in there. Plans of encouragement. you know, this could just be a time that God's just trying to get your attention and to just not lose heart, to definitely seek help if you feel like you need it.

Barbara: One word of encouragement that you had said before was you connected in different ways with different people. So one provider, you kind of felt like you didn't really make a connection. And then the next provider, now you didn't ask for somebody different, you just got somebody different, but there was a different connection with the next person. So I would want to encourage that also that sometimes. It's just the conversation clicks more with another person. and we might not always find that right match, the first time. And I know sometimes there's not a lot of choices, but, that's a great example that you gave.

Resources:

www.mops.org