Barbara: Hi, everyone. Welcome to 40 minutes of faith. My name is Barbara Cox and I host this weekly podcast to explore God's word and our relationship with God. Today's guest is the Reverend Dr. Martin Lohrman, one of my professors at Wartburg theological seminary in Dubuque, Iowa. Well, one of my former professors, because the grades from last semester are in.
Martin is from Washington state and joined the Warburg faculty in 2014. He previously served as a pastor and has taught courses at other seminaries and universities. Martin has a blog which I'll have listed on the podcast website, which is www.fortyminutesoffaith.com. Welcome, Martin. How are you and your family doing in Iowa?
Martin: thank you. You know, we're in the peak winter, so, so far so good. And the sun has been shining. The snow still looks pretty, so that's a good place to be in late January.
Barbara: And you had time to compose a song for us. Well, not for us specifically, but related to this theme that we'll get to here in a few minutes. So I'm glad you had the time for that.
Martin: Yeah, it was probably actually over Christmas. I was doing a lot of songwriting and I wondered who will ever listen to this song about law and gospel. And then you asked me to do a podcast with you about law and gospel.
Barbara: there you go. That is pretty amazing. I had already known from when this was presented in class in October, but I wanted to wait to ask you until the grades were in.
So today's Bible passage is from the book of Matthew. And if you're going to be following along with us today, Matthew is in the new Testament. So it's more than past the halfway mark in your Bible, from chapter five, verses 13 to 20 in the new revised standard version: “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how can its saltiness be restored?
It is no longer good for anything, but is thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world. A city built on a Hill cannot be hid. No one after lighting a lamp, puts it under the bushel basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all in the house in the same way. Let your light shine before others so that they may see your good works and give glory to your father in heaven.
Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven.
But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” Martin, our focus today is verse 16, let your light so shine. How does this passage relate to our topic of salvation?
Martin: Oh, in many ways, I think of this passage first off in terms of my grandmother's sayings - when we told her what we were doing, you know, when we were kids and she said, what do you have to? And we tell her what she's doing, and she'd say, let your light so shine. And I didn't know that was from the sermon on the Mount.
And I also didn't know as part of the baptism liturgy. So it was really an affirmation of who we are as baptized people. And now as a reformation historian and pastor theologian, you know, letting your light shine when it comes to who we are as Christians, how do we live out our faith how we let.
God's light and God's love shine in the world around us. This has become a really important passage that yes, we're free in Christ and yes, we let our light shine. And so that's how it relates to, to the later part of the passage you read about the law and the prophets and things like that. Those things don't go away, but they become A way to shine.
Not something we do to make God happy, but something that comes out of us because of what God is doing in us. So that's why I chose that. And also you can't read the sermon on the Mount too many times. I think Matthew five through seven is a really gorgeous part of the Bible.
Barbara: Yes. So optional homework, keep reading until you just have to stop and then keep reading some more after that.
Thank you so much. And I really appreciate that this passage includes some complicated ideas that maybe sometimes hard to understand or could be even interpreted or taught in different ways. So we have a nifty chart that Martin has created for us.
So for anyone wanting to watch this on YouTube, we're actually going to show the chart. Along with a quote from Martin Luther to sort of explain. And some people are visual learners, so you can kind of see things laid out.
So tell us a little bit about Martin Luther's original quote from 500 some odd years ago.
Martin: this is from the book I did my dissertation on in reformation history. I studied Johannes Bugenhagen, who was Luther's pastor. I was interested in my dissertation on getting to know the pastoral side, the practical side of the Lutheran reformation, and Bugenhagen wrote Biblical commentaries among other things. So I found this Jonah commentary that he wrote after Luther had died, hadn't been studied much. Cause I liked the book of Jonah as an interesting period after Luther dies to spend some time in, and then in the middle of this book, which is like 400 pages long, it's dense. He shares this recollection of what Luther said about how Luther discovered the gospel. So there's a handful of sources where Luther says, I remember I was reading Romans, or things like that. And one of them he's in a tower and you're not sure if he's in his room or in the bathroom, but then it strikes him, so that's called this tower experience.
So this is really a rare first person account of Luther and. What it was that really inspired him as a reformer early in his career. So this is Bugenhagen, his friend, his pastor, using Luther's own words. So he says, I, and he's referring to Luther the reformer. So this is Bugenhagen giving us Luther's recollection:
“So this is the passage, I, Luther, did not know that through the preaching and the Holy scripture of Christ church, there was a twofold judgment of God, one of the law and another of the gospel and likewise, a two-fold righteousness of God, one of the law and another of the gospel in the world, the judgment and righteousness of the law is known, but it is not performed.
But as the prophets announced, David's son, our Lord Jesus Christ, would bring about the judgment and righteousness of God through the gospel. When he was upon the earth. As in Jeremiah 23, you will make judgment and righteousness on the earth, et cetera.” They did that a lot. They'd start a Bible verse and then just put et cetera.
But here judgment and righteousness are the things that the Messiah will bring. So I had found that in my dissertation. The two kinds of righteousness squared, where I break down this paragraph. So that's what we'll do now. So you've heard some big words and concepts and hopefully now we make sense of them.
Barbara: That would be great. And some people will have a chance to be taking a look at this chart right on their screen. And other people will just be listening. They might be taking a run or doing the dishes or driving.
So we'll explain things. Actually. I'm not going to be explaining anything, but I'll tell you this chart was really helpful for me to understand the concept, even though I kind of was vaguely familiar with it. So it's all yours, Martin.
Martin: picture and X, Y axis, up, down, like a cross with an upper left upper right. Bottom left, bottom right. That's how I've put this together.
Barbara: The top left box says third use of the law. Martin knew what he was doing when he wrote this. There's a reason we're starting with the third use of the law, even though it's out of order, just in case that's driving you crazy. So what is the third use of the law, Martin?
Martin: this is the righteousness of the law. So the top part of the graph is righteousness. The bottom is judgment. The left is law, the right has gospel. So here we are in the righteousness of the law. And that means doing what we're supposed to do in this world.
Like following the 10 commandments, following the, just laws of society for the good of the people around us, because it's good for folks to follow, agreed upon. Community rules and regulations and expectations and that goes across society. So there's the 10 commandments, but other societies, other religions have these kinds of codes of conduct knowing and doing God's will or knowing and doing what's right for our neighbors.
And this is important. The Lutheran reformers, even though they talked about justification by grace, through faith, also knew it's important how we treat our neighbors. So they didn't drop this part. But they also said, this is not how you get saved. You don't get saved by being such a good person in the world around you or being a good rule follower.
So it's not salvation, but it's still important. And Melanchthon is Luther's colleague. I found him already in 1527, 1528 framing the 10 commandments this way- that first, the commandments are about what we're supposed to do. Second, they really drive us to God's grace.
But third, when we're Christians, we actually still do these things because it's good. We don't just see ourselves as fallen and we can't do it. And we're sinners and we don't see it as well. We're saved by grace, so they don't matter. We still live this, but it's not salvation. So this becomes the third use of the law in Lutheranism, which then becomes somewhat controversial among later Lutherans because, are we back to good works?
Are we back to being saved by how good we are? Melanchthon was really clear: No, Luther wrote the preface for this book that Melanchthon to put this in. So of course Luther knew and said, yeah, this is a good way to talk about it. So the righteousness of the law is when we do what we're supposed to do the whole time.
We're not saved by it. We don't get spiritual credit for it but it matters. It matters to God. It matters to the people around
Barbara: and maybe the world will be a better place.
Martin: Yeah, definitely. This is let your light so shine. You know, you're not saved by the light that shines out of you. You saved because God already put that light there. But this is letting the light shine for the good of others.
Barbara: And now proceeding to the lower left hand box. We've got the first use of the law and I know we're still out of order folks, but that's okay. There's really important reason why we're out of order.
Martin: So now we're in the bottom left judgment of the law. So when we don't do what we're supposed to do , we're saved by grace. God forgives. And also it matters that we acknowledge the wrong. Yes, it matters that hurts are identified and redressed.
As Paul puts it in Romans, government exists to protect the innocent and punish wrongdoing. And that's a work of God. So people who work in law enforcement, military, in social services , who really are protecting the vulnerable, who keep making sure that harm is not taking over.
They're doing a godly thing. But we're also not saved by this. So this is like the 10 commandments saying you shall not steal. And then when you steal, you get in trouble, like that's still something God approves of. God doesn't want people to steal and the repercussions can vary. But it matters that there's consequences for actions.
So punishes wrong, protects the innocent, and this is in service to the common good. Just like letting our light shine is good. Also protecting other people is important. So it's the judgment of the law. It's a godly thing. Like when God tells people in the Bible, you're in trouble that's because God cares and God doesn't want people to get hurt.
But that's not God's main thing. That's not what saves us. But it's important. And so the Lutherans called us the first use of the law because it's just to keep people safe.
Barbara: That really makes sense. And then there's a whole field of ethics and that's a whole separate conversation about, okay, you're starving and you steal a loaf of bread. I don't mean to completely derail the conversation, but just, this is the first use of the law. This is why it's here. And there's a good reason for it to be there.
Martin: Yeah. And just to add there, Luther believed everybody should just have food that the political systems exist so that people get food.
So in that case, you know, somebody stealing a loaf of bread to feed their family is already part of a system that's broken. So for Lutherans, yeah, maybe that person did something wrong, but the society as well harmed the family by not making sure people were fed. So it does call us to mutual accountability.
Barbara: does that sort of refer back to the third use of the law, meaning that we've created policies and systems that are more equitable and that are less oppressive and less really frankly, in many cases, intentionally oppressing people?
Martin: Yeah, we really know what's good for people. Like people need to have a basic necessities, feel safe, these things are not mysteries. So there's ways that we can do that and pretty relatable. We can find common ground on how to do that. So that would be the righteousness of the law and then to enforce it because we do make mistakes and things happen and it's important that we keep people safe in those ways.
Barbara: Thank you so much. How about a song about this very topic?
Martin: the song is about law and gospel. So I've talked about law and kind of some of the things law does. And what what's important for Christians is being set free in God being released, being loved, and we call that the gospel.
That's what God brings us. By grace, that's good for us. And so what we do in terms of rules and stuff, that's nice. But to remember that that our relationship with God is not rule-based is the gospel. And so all these things that we'll talk about they talk to each other and hopefully we remember through it, all that the gospel is where we find our freedom, even as we live in these different things.
Different systems and in life, we have different roles to play. So the great thing about from theology is it's more like a conversation than answers. So context is okay, like you work in law enforcement. Okay. It's important to enforce just laws in a fair way. So that's great. That's not the same thing as salvation.
So, you know, we can be both. And so this song, I used little Casio keyboard, beat machine. So here, let me I'll get my lyrics. All right. Are we ready to rock?
Law and Gospel
By Martin Lohrmann
Talk about the difference between law and gospel
The law is there to keep things from getting hostile
Or passive aggressive or just plain jerky
Doesn’t matter if you’re secular or churchy
Then there’s the good news, it’s gospel ahoy
Gonna crack you open with mercy and joy
If you been weighed down by all kinds of bad bizness
Jesus lifts you up with love and forgiveness
Proper distinctions between law and gospel
The twofold word of prophets and apostles
The law shows sin like a bolt of lightning
Jolts us to the Lord who leads the rising
Gospel preaching, gospel freedom
Goodbye sin and woe, cuz ya know who needs ‘em
Jesus shares the news of a double judgment
A cross that delivers you life abundant
Thinking the distinction between law and gospel
Turns out that life can get real awful
But God knows how it goes, so when you feel toppled
Jesus comes around to make you colossal
He told people off when they were being mean
Gave grace and healing to the unclean
He speaks two words for you to receive
Law and gospel, repent and believe
Barbara: I felt like yelling hallelujah at the end there. So you gave us a little sneak peek on the gospel message coming up.
So we have the lower right-hand box of our grid. And the second use of the law. So finally, we've got all three. Well, how about the second use of the law, Martin in this box here?
Martin: this is really fascinating. Just historically in terms of Lutheran theology, the judgment of the gospel is not a category that comes up much in theology, if at all. This is what Lutherans call the second use of the law, which is God's word shows us that we're sinners. we might think we're awesome or we're trying our best, but in the end, God's word shows us.
We don't trust God with all of our heart, we don't love our neighbors as ourselves. We've fallen and that's God's word, too. And So in a way it's judgment, God's word speaks judgment. But what Luther did in that quotation through Bugenhagen’s recollection of it, at least, is the saying that this is part of how the gospel works.
So when we're preaching good news to people, we do admit the truth about ourselves that we're broken beyond our own repair. We're not as awesome as we think we are, or if we don't feel so awesome, there's some reasons for that. But they always want to point them to something else.
If you leave people in that place. So like, well, you're a sinner, you've you have been given the gospel, you've done a move towards it. You've said repent, cause you need to change. Repent means turn around. But you haven't given them the next thing. So this is an important step in preaching and reading God's word and praying.
You're thinking about ourselves as people of God, but it's not the last step. Always, always point people to the gospel, the righteousness of the gospel. And in Luther's small catechism, he talks about dying every day in baptism. Baptism is a continual turning to Christ. So this is part of our baptized life is to recognize that because we need God and Christ every day.
And then to see what God's up to with us and what God wants to give us, then. In truth, God really does want to do good things for us and lift us up. So we'll move to that now, unless you have any questions.
Barbara: just wanting to point out that you had the words in all three of these boxes so far at the end you've had in brackets, “not salvation.” So even if we remember our baptismal vows and everyday turned to Christ, even yet that doesn't bring that salvation to me.
Martin: And beating ourselves up that we're imperfect is not, a lot of people think that's an important thing in religion is to say, Oh, I'm no good. You know, the medieval monks with their lashes, that is not salvation.
There may be some truth. And especially sometimes we need to remember in humility, but that's not where God leaves us and people who are already feeling that way don't need to do it more. That's an important thing to say. God, doesn't leave us there. That's salvation.
Barbara: here is the last of the squares in this chart.
Martin: The righteousness of the gospel. This is what Jesus came for. The reformers called this the righteousness of Christ because it's Jesus's righteousness. He's the one who is righteous and he gives it to us. We receive it through faith.
So it's called the righteousness of faith that when we believe in God, we have all the good things God wants to give us. When we trust God's grace for us, we have it. We have the reformers would say trust and you don't have to do anything. You don't have to get it.
Barbara: we can do a bunch of stuff, but we can't do it all right.
Martin: it's a free gift. It's something we can't do on our end. So this is the righteousness of God. Another biblical phrase the fancy theology words might be “imputed righteousness,” that is it's poured in. We don't make it happen ourselves.
And an alien righteousness alien in Latin means like a foreigner or a stranger or so it's outside of us. This is not Sigourney Weaver’s alien. No, although that's an awesome idea, too. That would be the science fiction version of this. Jesus has planted, it comes to us from outside that's alien, righteousness.
So in a sense, if that's helpful in a good way, that God gives us something from outside of ourselves and because it comes from outside of us so we can trust it. A lot of people think, well, I can't earn it. So is it really mine? Or am I really that good?
The point that the Lutheran reformers had when it came to alien righteousness, or external righteousness is a better way in English to say it. It's not that it's not ours. It depends absolutely nothing on us. It's given to us totally freely. So it's external. We don't earn it.
It's independent of us. And if you wonder, do I have this? You may doubt yourself, but you don't have to doubt God. You can trust God's promise for you. And so it was passages like, God is faithful. It's not about us. So even when we don't feel like we have enough faith or we really feel in a low place that's where the external word.
Is a promise. Like we don't do this for ourselves. It's been given and it doesn't depend on us. And hopefully that's a good thing.
Barbara: And finally, the brackets that say not salvation inside them are gone. And this is salvation.
Martin: It's totally a gift, not a gift, like a thing, but like a gift to experience, like when the burden is lifted, when the sun comes from the clouds on a dark day, it's life in the midst of where they didn't seem like there could be life. So all these things that salvation is, these are the promises of God for us, true beyond us.
So, people ask me about resurrection and what happens in an afterlife. And I say, I don't know. But God has promised and I trust God, it can be a mystery to me.
Barbara: We're okay with mysteries, which is very comforting to me, too. We can question, we can talk about it, but we don't have to know all the answers and isn't our wisdom God's foolishness. Am I remembering that in the right order?
Martin: Let's see. God's foolishness is better than our wisdom. It seems silly that a Messiah would die. It seems offensive. God isn't interested in all of our external piety and all the things we do to show off and to make us feel good about ourselves and lift ourselves up. The theology of the cross can be summarized as God showing up in the least likely places.
That's how Tim Wengert, who was my teacher would put it, Jesus was going up in the places you would least expect. And that's this free gift of grace.
Barbara: I also really appreciate, Martin, you've said a couple of times that we can trust God. And I suspect that that might be hard for people sometimes, especially with awful things happening in someone's life, and we say sometimes God is in control or God has plans for us. And it's possible that that is a really long conversation, like a whole separate podcast episode. But do you have any words for someone who might be thinking, I do trust God for my salvation and I don't even know what's happening in my life or just circumstances are really terrible right now?
Martin: the judgment of the law is really helpful because people hurt each other and sometimes God has nothing to do with it. We know what we're doing and we hurt each other. And we know on the basis of scripture and Christian community and the Holy spirit in us that that's wrong.
And we just say, that's wrong and that's not God. There are mysterious things in the Bible where God leads people in really difficult things. And Jesus himself says, “if it'd be thy will, please take this cup away.” So there are challenging things that come with faith, but sometimes being hurt or experiencing wrong is a consequence of the brokenness in the world around us. And we have the right, the freedom, to say, this is wrong. The word of God and a word of truth says, “stop this.” So that's a gift too, is a freedom to say when something's wrong and not pretend that there's some holiness when something really just is broken.
That's also part of Luther's theology of the cross, to call a thing what it is. We don't have to pretend that the world's brokenness is somehow God pleasing.
Barbara: And we know that it says in the box it punishes wrong and protects the innocent that's the intention. But we know sometimes not all wrong doing is punished and sometimes innocent people are not protected or in fact are punished. So our system isn't perfect and we are advocating to correct the system to the best of our ability.
Martin: That's the nice thing about Lutheran theology, too, is it's a process. So you'd never say like, well, the system's good, so just trust the system. Because the systems get broken in this world. And it's okay to say that. In Luther's small catechism and the large catechism, on the fourth commandment, honor thy father and mother, he tells children, obey authority because authority is good and he uses this kind of logic, it's there to protect.
Protect the innocence, punish wrong, they're there for your good. In the large catechism, he says, of course, this goes for the authorities for people in a position of authority, parents, or government or police that they not misuse their authority. God has given authority for servant leadership, not to do your will on people who are powerless compared to you.
So that's in the large catechism, too, this acknowledgement that our systems can be broken, that authorities themselves can make mistakes or be corrupt. It doesn't mean we get rid of systems of accountability or authority. It just means we keep an eye out. Cause we know brokenness is everywhere.
Barbara: I often ask whose voice is missing and that might sound kind of weird, cause this has been such a thorough presentation and explanation of this concept, but is there anything we're not talking about that's important with this?
Martin: I would invite people, and this is Lutheran theology too, is to think about where you are in life. And this is what the word of God does - it meets us where we are. So if you're already feeling low and broken and like things are against you, you don't have to go there more. God knows that and is there to lift you up. If you're feeling like things are pretty good and everything's on your side, maybe that's a time to listen to the law a little differently and maybe examine yourself in the mirror some more- is God coming first?
Am I loving my neighbors as myself? Because we often have huge blind spots. And so that's where the word of God meets us in a dynamic way in a way that surprises us every day, in a way that's new every day, in a way that honors where we are every day. So this is where the word of God really is alive.
And so not to beat up people who are already feeling down and not to make people feel full of themselves, get to feel more full of themselves, but to be involved in a conversation with God through scripture day by day so that we're on a path that looks like Jesus.
Barbara: Some self-reflection, prayer, meditation in whatever way that is suits you. And then maybe even communicating with some other people about this topic, taking a look at all four of these boxes.
Martin: to say, where are you? What in a Bible study jumped out at you or where does it hit you in your life today? Is an important thing. I noticed, as I was thinking about law and gospel is important theological category for Lutheran theology.
How God word works on us. I just started thinking about, well, what happens in Jesus's life? And I had the one line in the song, Jesus told people off when they were being mean and when people needed help, he helped them. So if you're wondering, where is Jesus? Jesus is in the context, where if somebody is hurting others, Jesus has no problem saying stop it.
He's not just meek and mild, like, Oh, it's okay. We love you and say, stop hurting people. And when people are down, he says, God loves you. I love you, lifts them up and invites them to follow along. I think that's a really important piece. So, who's missing, I hope people find themselves somewhere in here and always end up in gospel. God is love and his love for you is the main thing. If we don't get to that, we've done it wrong.
Barbara: this isn't a board game where you start at the beginning and you progress through all the boxes and then you get to the end and you're done and you collect $200 . You get to salvation or heaven and then you're done. You're suggesting, Hey, let's really take a look. We fall short of the glory of God every single day. And not to say that we're hopping all over the place, but that it's not just a linear step-by-step kind of process and then you're finished at the end.
Martin: That's where faith is a daily relationship with God and relationships go up and down and have good times and bad times and hard times and fun times. And in this life we go through it all - in the Lutheran tradition, we never escape the brokenness. And it's into that reality then, that God is bringing good news. So to recognize that is not a bad thing, it's not a negative thing. It helps us see what God is up to in us and in the world around us. God does love this world. That's a really strong statement of faith. God does love this world. What does that look like today?
Barbara: I also to ask if there's an elephant in the room and I have a sort of elephant that I'm wondering if you have some thoughts on- each of us has a direct connection with God.
And we have people on earth who can help us to teach us and to maybe admonish us, but that you and I can pray directly to God. And that this gift is directly from God to us. Can you talk a little bit about that concept of our direct relationship with God as well as then the human beings on earth who are around us to hopefully support that journey, but maybe not always?
Martin: both and. So yes, every person has the relationship with God. Directly. Every one of us can pray to God and for the spirit and for the spirits intercession. We don't need somebody else to do it for us. I don't have to get somebody else's approval. Each one of us has that.
And then the flip side is that we're not alone in this- scripture is there. So that if I say this is what the Holy spirit seems to be leading me into, I can say, does this look like the God I know from scripture? So we have a scripture as a guide. And also we have a community.
When I say, I think the Holy Spirit's calling me here, I'm feeling this pull in my life. There are people around us who know us who know scripture and faith. Well, I would say, yeah, that sounds right. Or who might say, well, you might think about it this way, too. So yes, we have personal access to God and faith is every person's relationship to God and nobody else can believe for you. And we don't believe alone and that's it. Everybody believes with each other and we help each other. And then the spirit’s there, also. Good old “both/and” Lutheranism.
Barbara: we have been warned about false prophets, and prophets isn't really a word that we talk about too much in this day and age, but maybe false teachings. So that's a difficult discernment sometimes. I'm hearing these different messages from these different sources. It's not always right and wrong. What are your thoughts on that?
Martin: Does it look like Jesus? That's what I find you can't get around it, a message that says God will lift you up and other people will be forgotten. It doesn't sound like Jesus. A God that says you've been saved, so you don't have to care about the rest of this world and what happens in it, doesn't sound like Jesus, because Jesus came for this world. If we're following Jesus, we care. If you follow me, you'll get all kinds of earthly riches or material reward. That doesn't sound like Jesus. Nope.
Think about the disciples, how often they didn't believe, or they literally fail their time of trial when Jesus is arrested, and he comes back for them.
Barbara: the disciples messed up so often and weren't just pushed aside forever. I mean, they got stoned sometimes, which is another whole nother thing.
Martin: That's the thing about suffering for Jesus, is you can't make somebody else suffer for Jesus, for one thing. And when it's the right time, it's the right time. There are lots of times Jesus walks away from angry mobs and angry authorities. So not every time is the time that we need to accept. Maybe this is the time. That was one thing I learned early in my career in ministry is to notice how often Jesus just walks away.
Is that like pick your battles? It is, wipe the dust off your feet. But then there are times like, how do we know? It's time to really just take a stand- that takes personal courage and wisdom, it helps to have the wisdom of other people in our lives that we respect.
And you get Luther when he's on trial, “here I stand. I can do no other, unless I am convinced by scripture and plain reason, I will not recant.” A lot of people see this as he's the first modern person who stands up against the authority for the individual. But he didn't say standing up for himself.
He said, he's standing up on scripture and not just his scripture and scripture and plain reason. Like, let's talk about this. Does this mean this? So that kind of accountability, and then a willingness to say, this is where I am. And you're not going to move me. And, to know that the consequences will come and that's a tough thing.
But we see it in people of conviction sometimes. And it's a great witness. And yeah, so that's part of tending to faith every day. It tends to that kind of courage when we need it.
Barbara: I really appreciate your wisdom. And you've also shared with us some resources, you mentioned the small catechism, the large catechism.
And I know that when I did a previous episode, I just did an overview of all my fall semester classes. I mentioned the book of Concord as a, just a huge tome. Is there any other resource that you want to point out to people, Martin?
Martin: You know, the small catechism by Luther just gets richer and richer for me. It's a little thing, it's deceptively simple. But when you spend time in the commandments, the Lord's prayer, the apostles creed, the sacraments, you're in for a journey. And the Semon on the Mount.
Barbara: Sermon on the Mount, small catechism, the large catechism.
Martin: This has been a lot of fun. Thank you very much, Barbara and audience.
Barbara: Great. I hope you have a fruitful sabbatical. Thank you very much.
Resources:
Matthew 5:13-20
https://reformation2517.weebly.com/ Martin’s blog
Small Catechism by Martin Luther
Large Catechism by Martin Luther
Book of Concord
Rev. Dr. Martin Lohrman explains Lutheran Theology and sings about it, too!