Today's topic is spiritual direction and our guest is Michelle L’Allier. I met Michelle in a class about how to start a podcast. Michelle has been a Franciscan sister of little falls, Minnesota for over 30 years. Her journey was circuitous growing up in a Catholic home with six siblings. She was a young adult when she was first invited to a personal relationship with Jesus. Michelle holds a masters in theology and has worked in parish ministry as a spiritual director in adult faith, formation, youth and young adult ministry and the facilitation of retreats. As a religious sister, she never married but lives in a women's religious community. This is another form of family where they share life in community, in the God quest and in lives of service.
Michelle's dream is that the entire human family will learn to live with one another. And with God's gift of creation in mutual respect, love and service. Thanks for joining us today, Michelle. How are things in Minnesota today?
Michelle: It's a lovely day and I'm actually quite happy and content. What came to my heart as a way to start our conversation today is Romans chapter 12, the first two verses.
Barbara: for folks who are flipping through their Bibles, Romans is in the new Testament. So it's past the halfway mark after the gospels and after Acts.
Michelle: “I urge you, therefore brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, Holy and pleasing to God, your spiritual worship. Do not conform yourselves to this age, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind that you may discern what is the will of God- What is good and pleasing and perfect.”
The richness of this to me is the beauty of recognizing God's mercy as not only a spiritual event, but it's an embodied event. We offer our bodies. As a living sacrifice and spiritual direction really includes the whole person art experience, not only, a spiritual relationship.
And then it comes into the mind too. We're body, mind, and spirit to be transformed by the renewal of our minds that we may discern and really discernment or making informed wise choices and decisions is a strong component of spiritual direction, so that we're being invited by St. Paul to discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect.
Barbara: I really appreciate that. And this may be a familiar passage for some people while others might be hearing it for the first time. And I thought about all the different places where I've heard Bible verses over the years from either my family of origin or going to Sunday school or church services, even vacation Bible school, or a faith based school. And there could be additional names of faith development activities in other religions or denominations.
Some people may not have experienced any faith development at all as kids. They may have had a college or military chaplain or seen neighborhood churches or even preachers on television. Michelle, I'm curious because I had never heard of spiritual direction until several years after college, when I attended a retreat in Massachusetts. So what is spiritual direction and where did it come from?
Michelle: classically speaking spiritual direction is an art. It's an art of accompaniment of one Christian in a Christian context of one Christian to another. That enables them to pay attention to their experience of God, their capacity, to respond to God who initiates reaching out to us God, who is love.
And it offers an opportunity to grow in depth and in breadth, in our prayer and relationship with God as we live into what this means in our daily lives. Spiritual direction can be known by other names. You might say some would say spiritual companions, soul friends, spiritual accompaniment, and in a broader sense, it would fall under this area of having a mentor or a deep listener on the spiritual journey.
Someone who comes for spiritual direction. Can trust that they will be listened to and honored for wherever they are in their life journey. It is not about proselytizing, but rather listening deeply for the movement of the spirit in an individual's life and meeting them right there in that journey.
Barbara: sometimes I feel like there's a negative connotation to the word proselytizing- maybe people are fearful about kind of getting clobbered over the head with a Bible and I'm hearing you kind of say the exact opposite of that.
Michelle: Yeah, it's very interesting because the content of it is a person's life and their life in God. And so it comes at it from that relational part.
When you mentioned I was a young adult when I came to a personal relationship with Christ, I grew up and went to what we called catechism and learned about God, but that's different than meeting God, being in relationship with God and spiritual direction meets us at that place of this hunger for God.
As a friend of mine, sister Mary, would say our hungers are God-sized and in dominant cultures today, certainly here in North America, that hunger is being usurped by hungers for the latest tech gizmo, addictive kinds of attachments to things or places or activities that can deflect us or distract us from our ultimate purpose of living in communion with God and of offering our lives, as Saint Paul says, as a living sacrifice that is our spiritual worship. So spiritual direction helps us stay tuned in to that spiritual moment of our lives. And where are the blocks and the obstacles in our prayer? and what is it that our prayer is teaching us about who God is? and where is the invitation or the call to grow even more so into our potential that we in turn can give back to God what God has given us? We develop our talents and then we give them back in service and in praise.
Barbara: I wanted to know a little bit more about the quote, present your bodies as a living sacrifice, because I fear that some verses Bible can be divisive and people can use them to say this is what this means, and this is what people should do. And I wasn't really sure what it meant. So my Lutheran study Bible says that God's gifts are so great that the only proper response is for people to offer their entire lives to God. And I kind of want to clarify- my understanding of my faith education so far, that you'd perhaps mean the ultimate sacrifice, the price of losing our lives, but there are other ways to give our lives to God that does not necessarily mean death and the message version says:
“take your everyday ordinary life- your sleeping, eating, going to work and walking around life- and place it before God as an offering. Embracing what God does for you is the best thing you can do for him.”
Michelle: one of the sayings of St. Francis 800 years ago, and St. Clair, who is a contemporary of his, they would say, give yourself totally to the one who has given himself totally to you. So they're referring to Jesus and his sacrifice of life for love for us. And that we too are invited into that movement of giving freely what we have received freely. So that spiritual direction helps us attune to what brings us closer to God. And what is it that draws us away from God.
We get better at discerning or discriminating wisely and choosing that which brings us closer to God. And of course, Jesus did not separate that from the grace to love our neighbor. So love God with our entire being, and then love our neighbors as ourselves. They really are partnered, that if we choose God, we are also by the nature of God being love.
Barbara: I think it's pretty cool how that passage comes up in almost every episode. It's the greatest commandment. Love your neighbor. it's pretty core. Jesus made it the center point.
Now some folks may have attended Bible studies or maybe I have gone to Sunday school. And I'm curious what makes the process of spiritual direction different from what someone might think of as a typical learning about the Bible type experience?
Michelle: there's different kinds of Bible studies. Some you would have someone trained in facilitating and guiding the process. Others may have video series that give input with some of the historical or linguistic backgrounds and context to help it. And others is really more of a faith sharing using the Bible on the scriptures as a reference point to break open the stories of our own lives and there isn't a person designated as a facilitator or a teacher.
Spiritual direction would come often in a time of transition. maybe growing into a deeper stage of faith and they're doubting and they need someone to help with that; maybe they're in grief after moving or losing a job or the death of a loved one or a new diagnosis of an illness.
And having a companion on the spiritual journey where the Holy Spirit is the director and the spiritual director companion is one who helps foster a listening for that movement of the spirit and train in how to go about that. And their experience of God and their gifts of prayer and struggle with prayer.
And at times, because love of God and love of neighbor are partnered, then it will be freeing struggles in relationships, in the family or at work or within themselves that have a spiritual dimension to them. And the breaking through to new understanding conciliation opens a new pathway for the relationship with God as well.
Barbara: It almost sounds like it's a one on one relationship with another human being, but then leaving lots of room for the Holy spirit, which you might experience in different ways, but. Typically, can't see.
When I think of having a one on one conversation with another person around whatever's going on in your life, since I'm a social worker, it sounds a little bit like counseling, So I'm wondering if you could help us to understand the difference between typical counseling and spiritual direction.
Michelle: it is not psychological counseling. It's not therapy, it's not pastoral counseling, but it is a confidential meeting with a spiritual director, someone trained to listen for these movements of the spirit and the development of the spiritual life. And it's for the purpose of deepening one's spiritual life and deepening one's relationship with God. It is a time to explore the movement of, and the listening to the Holy spirit. I hear it in one's life. And it is a way of, as I noted of growing in the skill of discernment and the actual on the ground practice of making good decisions.
Barbara: I really liked the words that you use, like a companion- and some people might think of their counselor or their therapist as a companion, but in training, that's definitely not the language that's used. You're sitting in the room with another person for a period of time talking about your problems, but the focus is different. And you also mentioned pastoral counseling. I know I'm splitting hairs at this point, I don't believe I've ever participated in pastoral counseling. So that's even yet another layer sort of that I'm not really clear on. How might those be different?
Michelle: So my understanding, and I'm not a pastoral counselor- typically a therapist or a counselor clinical social worker will come and not be from explicitly any way of perspective of faith, but really looking at the psychological in your personal life and growth in health and dealing with difficulties; the pastoral counselor will come from a place of faith. And so it might be explicitly in a Christian context or in an ecumenical context of some form, even in interfaith context, but they bring a spiritual component to work very explicitly and that's what you're signing on for.
Barbara: But the focus with spiritual direction is still more accompaniment in discerning God's will where pastoral counseling could be a little bit more. This is my problem, I don't know what to do.
Michelle: Right. So counseling we'd often enter into because we're experiencing a difficulty or a challenge and needing help to navigate that in our lives; spiritual direction, even in the best of times- we're flourishing, our potential is infinite because we're made in God's image. And so a spiritual companion helps us grow into that potential. And as I think it was Marianne Williamson has this great poem or oratory piece about it.
It doesn't serve God to play small. We need to bring our whole selves forward. And, that the world needs people who are mature and capable of engaging and bringing gospel values into the world. So spiritual direction helps us flourish in our own relationship with God, which strengthens us. In our capacities with other people or with ethical issues or whatever it may be.
So spiritual direction is a nuance difference. Looking at pastoral counseling the focus isn't strengthening your spiritual life. It's strengthening your relational life or helping you deal with challenges in the season of your life with the spiritual component. So the focus is different.
Both deal with relationships, both deal with the spiritual life. But I would say the emphasis it's different. The starting point is different.
Barbara: Thank you. That's definitely helpful. I'm wondering from the years of experience that you have with spiritual direction, why do people seek out spiritual direction and maybe what are some common themes that you've noticed? What do people talk about ?
Michelle: yeah, that's a really great question because it can be a little bit intimidating to just walk in a door and say, what do I talk about? Sure. So for example, for myself, I've had a spiritual director since college and there've been some times I've.
Yeah. I have noticed in my life, I'm now in my early sixties, that basically for 40 years, I've had a very intentional commitment to be in my spiritual life. When I started out, I didn't know what to talk about. And so the spiritual directors trained in how to help encourage. ability to articulate one's life story, articulate our experience of God because we're body mind and spirit it also in, especially in spiritual direction, it gets at the feeling dimension as well, because what's the stuff of the discernment.
What leads us toward God and what. Moves us away from God is often in the body indicated by our emotional state of what brings us peace and what brings us lack of peace. It's so. what is it that we bring to spiritual direction? As I noted, you might come with a concern or simply a hunger to deepen our relationship with God.
It could be that we're in a time of significant transition. Maybe. I'm retiring. And, and suddenly the threshold of my life is looking different. Maybe it's a divorce. it could be an empty nest situation, but, and maybe it's just a general Melendez. I remember when I was 39, I was leaving after five years in Nicaragua and I came back to the States.
I just felt like I I've got to have something more. The number one, I was burned out for five years there, but the sense that there's gotta be more. And so I was beginning as I look at it now to move into midlife and in midlife, the questions change. And so navigating the first half of our life in relation to the second half of our life often can benefit from having a company.
also, it could be someone wants to just a meaningful faith based conversation. There's a Franciscan sister whose name is Nancy Shrek. And she would talk about. Human beings yearn for thick conversation. That's T H I C K thick conversations. And what she means is to move beyond superficialities, like here in Minnesota.
Nice. We often talk about the weather. Well, okay. What else? Besides the weather, you know, move to the level of meaning and purpose and values. That we can practice that and, explore that in spiritual direction, in a way that often isn't possible in our day to day. I think the other piece of it in terms of themes that may be around the prayer life, what are images God are, how do I listen and clarify where God is leading me?
another piece may be that. An entry point for spiritual direction would be God, but I don't know how it fits this moral situation I'm facing in my workplace or with this conflict I'm in with my boyfriend or girlfriend. And so the embodiment of it is noted in Romans 12, offering our bodies as a living sacrifice to bring that faith perspective and relationship with God into those very real human experiences.
And one last thing I would say about this Barbara is we've read the papers and we know the story. Maybe even in our own families, there's a growing global reality of people who consider themselves spiritual, but not religious. Yes. So they're not in our churches. They're not reading the Bible. They're not reading Holy books, of any sort.
But they're on a spiritual quest. So spiritual direction is entirely applicable to people on a spiritual quest, but not rooted in a spiritual tradition at this point. I think that's an important acknowledgement that being human, we all have a spiritual dimension to our lives.
Not everyone has the gift of faith. And some actively are rejecting what they see in the body of faith, because it's not true to their sense of who God must be or it's hypocritical or we're really in a time of crumbling institutional life. And so they're suspicious of religious institutions because they're suspicious of many.
And so how do we translate gospel values in that real context? Of people who are searching, but not finding what they're looking for.
Barbara: I really appreciate you clarifying that Michelle, because it doesn't mean, Oh, I'm Lutheran. So I have to go find a Lutheran spiritual director or I'm Episcopalean and I need to find, and that also speaks, maybe we can't get this thick conversation that you were talking about on a Sunday morning.
We have music. We have preaching. Well now during COVID-19 it's totally different. But anyway, some people might get the spiritual nurturing that they need on a Sunday, or Wednesday night Bible study or something like that. So sometimes you can't though, and then this is supplemental, but then if you're not involved in a formal church situation, but you're still a spiritual person, this could be another resource.
Michelle: That's right. And let me just say there are also group. Spiritual direction opportunities. And I would say at times a Bible study may have a component of that. Where, when I mentioned the faith sharing dimension of it, That, you give feedback or reflect back or listen deeply to one another in these very precious circles of shared life in a Bible study that does give guidance or does strengthen my relationship with God.
So there is an element of spiritual accompaniment there, but there also can be a place for the individual. And that's where we can really go in depth in my, the fabric of my entire life and say, what is it? That's consistent. What's been the message of my life. What is the yearning of my heart going forward?
And have someone tuned in at that level with you to mirror back, ask clarifying questions, perhaps give scripture or prayer practices or reflection practices to help get at articulating and making conscious what is. Troubling us or nudging us or restless within us.
Barbara: I appreciate that you mentioned group spiritual direction, Michelle. Cause I hadn't heard of that until just a few months ago when I was writing a paper about faith development and learning that even Bible studies can look different. You can have lecture style, Bible studies, videos, fill in the blank, you know, praying with each other, talking about our life experience as it relates to what we're learning about in the Bible, but that group spiritual direction is also then unique from a Bible study in, you could be talking about the Bible, but it's more about our faith journey. That was my understanding anyway, of what was explained to me at the time,
Michelle: Yes
Barbara: and a group format can provide a tremendous sense of support and even companionship on the walk. Like you said, praying for each other, learning from each other. We have different seasons of our lives that we go through. just being with other people can be a really terrific experience.
sounds like you hinted a little bit, there could be some homework in spiritual direction. You've made it sound so kind and welcoming. And my experience in Massachusetts was certainly that it's really up to you. It's voluntary. You're the one who said, I want to do the spiritual direction stuff, but here are some tools perhaps that could help with that process.
Michelle: Yup. That's right.
Barbara: Great. Now I would much rather talk about the elephant in the room than anything else. I like to think that faith formation is free. You go to church and yes, most churches do ask for financial support, but you can go online and get tons of resources.
You could read the Bible. So a two part question, Michelle is why might someone consider making a financial contribution to receive spiritual direction and hand in hand with that? Is there a way for someone with a tight budget to have an opportunity for spiritual direction?
Michelle: just as you might think, there are people who are life coaches, the counselors, massage therapists, spiritual directors, too, have formation and are professionally trained and often count on some form of income for their work to support themselves or their families.
Now, having said that, depending on each spiritual director's situation, Spiritual direction may be offered in addition to their quote unquote Day job, or it may have been taken up in their season of retirement and bringing to bear a lifetime of experience in accompanying others. And it's a less stressful than a high responsibility job, but it's so for many of us, including myself, it's woven into the fabric of my service.
It's part of what I do and have done. for a long time, so fees, so to speak can be handled in different ways. Some would have a sliding fee scale, perhaps as a counselor would some would have a donation basis. So for example, myself, as part of the religious community, we have suggested donations and people offer what they can - more or less, range and some don't need, and they don't expect any financial contribution. I'll give you an example of say someone is a pastor of a church they're trained in spiritual direction and parishioners are coming for direction. They wouldn't necessarily charge over and above. So that is a really open question. What I can say is most often the first session is free and it's a time where questions are asked and the person who's coming for direction says what they're looking for the director will say where they're coming from and what they feel they can contribute.
And at the end of that, if it looks like it has possibility would talk about at the end of that introductory conversation, the whole contribution or remuneration question. And if you're unable to pay or have a limited ability to contribute, just talk with the person and often it's okay. Doable that we understand.
Some are able to pay at a high end, most are able to pay a moderate amount and some are not able to pay it all, or just a little bit bet. And that's how it works. And it's a work of the spirit in the big picture.
Barbara: Great. So it sounds like maybe a little bit of research is in order or asking the question and not to be embarrassed about it. I'm sure someone has provided spiritual direction has had this conversation many times. And I grew up like you take care of yourself, you take care of business, you do the right thing and it might feel shameful to some folks to say, Hey, listen, my budget's pretty tight right now, or there's no room right now.
I'm hearing a very warm message of welcome from you that it's okay to share- This is my situation and it might be the opposite for somebody else might have plenty of budget and they're like, here's my check, no problem.
Michelle: That's great. Yup. Great.
Barbara: So how do you find a spiritual director? And do you ever see if there might be someone who's a little more in alignment that might be a better fit somehow?
Michelle: This is really, really important. Just as you might be looking for a marriage partner. In my case, I was looking for a fit in religious community. You have to find someone who is a fit for where you are in your spiritual journey, that there's a sense of connection, a sense of being heard and understood.
How do you find one then? if you know people who are in spiritual direction, you might ask them, well, who do you know and knowing me, who would you recommend? If you're not in those circles, which many are not, then there are people you could go ask, for example, look in your area. Are there any retreat centers and call and find out, do they have trained spiritual directors?
Are there religious communities that may have trained spiritual directors? And as I mentioned, a pastoral leaders or pastors, if they are not themselves trained, they may know of people who are. Now when you find maybe one, two or three that you want to check out and I would encourage you if the first person isn't a fit.
And even if you wonder if they're a fit, check out another one or two people,
you're looking for a spiritual director who is trained because you went through seminary doesn't mean you're trained in spiritual direction. It means you have an idea of what the spiritual life is, and you're trained in preaching and all of the things that need to go with pastoring, but that is not the same as an in depth, ongoing relationship and spiritual direction.
Okay. Also, I would say this is true of counselors as well. You want someone who has a peer supervision group? In other words, a spiritual director has a lot of, influence in one's spiritual life. That is a very tender, dimension of our being human and our relationship with God. You want to know that your spiritual director is doing their inner work.
In other words, they're dealing with their own loss. They're dealing with their own challenges. They are strengthening their own spiritual lives. Because if they're not doing that work, then their unfinished business can get in the way of listening to you and where you are in your journey. So you want to do your due diligence that your person has been trained and that they're in some form of peer supervision or group support so that you can trust.
They are able to be freely available to listen to you, your story and what you need and not be working out their own business. Secondly when you interview the first time or with two or three people, you tell a bit of your story, what you're looking for, you hear what their style of spiritual direction is.
For example, just like in counseling, there's different theories and practices. That's true in spiritual direction. So, so an example would be some would be classically trained. They listened when they reflect back, they may give you scripture or. comment on the story, but you're the leader and that's what you bring is exactly what's handled.
I would say I fall more in this side of, because of my training life experience. That depending on a person's experience with spirit direction, I may start on a side that is accompanying with more of a mentoring dimension of giving skills exercises to build skills about self reflection, articulating our story, different prayer types so that a person gets at home.
More fully in the interior life and in the spiritual life and various practices. And as they do, they become more comfortable in taking the lead. And I stepp back. especially with young adults who are not accustomed to articulating on a personal level, their relationship with God and the story of the values they live by.
Then the third thing is when you begin say you interview two or three people, you decide which one's a good fit. even if it feels a little uncomfortable the first or second time, give it at least three visits to see if you grow into a place of fit with each other.
And if not, then move on to the next exploration of a possible spiritual director. That's not something taken personally, if you start or stop, because it's a work of the spirit. You want someone who to walk with you who can walk with you, that chapter of your spiritual life. It may be for six months.
It may be for six years, but you will know, or the director will know. And usually on an annual basis, there's a little reflection to see if it is, on both sides that it's growthful and continuing. I used to be nurturing of the spiritual life. I think one more question that was, how often do you meet ordinarily?
It's about once a month, if you're in an intense time, like there's a person I'm meeting with right now, we're meeting weekly because of the intensity of what she's going through. And then there's others who check in maybe every two to three months because they're in a more stable place in their journeys, but they want to have that both accountability and support in growing in their spiritual life on a regular basis.
Would continue that for as long as the sessions are beneficial, the sessions themselves last an hour or so little more, little less, but it's about that time.
Barbara: I'm hearing you say that it's not rude to talk to two or three different people before you start. And it's not unheard of to say. Thank you. This may not be the best fit for me right now. So say goodbye, a provider would be mature and understanding. I get the sense that this is hard work. It might not be easy. So maybe there's some tough conversations. you're suggesting try a few meetings and then say, okay, that's great.
Michelle: Yeah. And it may not even be difficult. It just may be that you're not quite sure. It's not clear. But give it time to become clear, at least those three sessions.
Barbara: I'm wondering if you have any favorite resources about spiritual direction, that you would recommend. for someone who'd like to learn a little bit more about this.
Michelle: you may have heard of the Jesuits. Saint Ignatius of Loyola really was a master of articulating what other spiritual masters had done over the centuries, but he developed an Ignation method of discernment.
It was developed into a formalized method, and it really is one of the core practices globally. So, there's, Ignatianspirituality.com and they have a beautiful section on there on making good decisions and spiritual direction. You can just follow the links and get a Judeo Christian perspective on spiritual direction.
And then there's spiritual directors international. It has really moved to a very broad interfaith context now. So it is not explicitly Christian, but there are many resources on there about what is spiritual direction, what to expect, how do I prepare?
How do I find one? There's a global index of spiritual directors and it's not a licensing agency, so that's not what they're speaking to. It's a learning community about. what they call spiritual companioning.
Barbara: Yeah. The website's SDIcompanions.org.
Michelle: That's right. you just take what fits from a Christian perspective and leave the rest. But as I say, when we draw from the broader well of the spiritual life, because all of life was called into being by God, through Jesus, according to John's gospel. That whether people are Christian or not, there are still elements of the truth of being made in God's image in all of life.
we can gain illumination of our own Christian tradition by being in conversation with other traditions. If we're secure enough in our own. grounding in our tradition and our conscience formation and all of that.
Barbara: I think by now in the summer of 2020, we just take online meetings for granted, but probably before March. maybe nobody would think about, Oh, can I do this online or not? Cause you just would assume that you're going to do it in person, but especially for folks in remote locations, do you think that many spiritual directors at this point, given the pandemic are willing to meet electronically instead of in person?
Michelle: Yes. And that has been going on for a long time because there are areas of the globe that don't have access to spiritual directors. I would say most at this point, do some form of virtual availability
Barbara: for me, there's no comparison to meeting in person. that's something that I treasure, but it hasn't been possible this spring and into the summer. And some States are having second waves now. So that's great to know And I also am wondering if for any reason it's just not possible. It could somebody say journal about their faith journey in a way that helps them think through spiritual questions, which I know isn't the same as what we're talking about, but just sort of a plan B or a temporary plan, or this is how it needs to be right now.
Michelle: of course that would be very possible. And I think there's a lot of really beautiful tools out there that are like companion journals. Okay. I would encourage people to maybe do a little scouting out in research online as to spiritual direction. for example, there's daily examine of conscience.
This is from the Jesuit tradition. That is a beautiful, beautiful resource. For daily strengthening, a practice of living and discerning life basically has to do with where God was especially present and where I was especially responsive to the movements of God's grace, but then also acknowledging at the end of the day where I failed or fell short and making resolve, and how to strengthen my ability to be faithful the data come.
So there are a lot of spiritual exercises that are out there.
Resources:
Romans 12:1-2
Michelle explains spiritual direction